• stonedemoman@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    They’ve already banned menthol in California and it did nothing. Alternatives are already being marketed and sold and some of the better ones recreate the exact same effect but cost $1.20 more per pack at the low end. To put it simply, this is dumb as fuck.

      • stonedemoman@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        That’s not in anyone’s own interests. Smokers have to pay more, tobacco industry gets more money. Literally a lose-lose. Dumb. As. Fuck.

        • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That’s not how capitalism works. If the tobacco industry could raise prices and get more money today, they would. Since they haven’t, you have to assume that any increased taxes or burden on them will reduce their profits.

          Yes, it might increase prices to the end consumer, because the demand curve will change when the costs change. But that doesn’t mean the tobacco industry is making any more money. If it did, they would already charge more.

          • stonedemoman@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Wrong. Prohibition increases demand.

            Edit: Based off some replies, I think a lot of people are forgetting some rudimentary aspects of the concept of “demand”, so allow me to help:

            Demand is an economic concept that relates to a consumer’s desire to purchase goods and services and willingness to pay a specific price for them.

            When supply decreases, the price of the good increases. Inversely, when the supply of the good increases, the price falls

        • Jake Farm@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          What do you mean? The more people have to pay in order to smoke the less people will smoke.

          • stonedemoman@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            There’s a reason why people tend to hit rock bottom before they finally kick their drug addiction. If they don’t have the means, they will attempt to find it. Your logic is flawed, and only serves to disproportionately impair the poor while bolstering the very industry you fight.

            • Jake Farm@sopuli.xyz
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              1 year ago

              I don’t fight, and I am pretty sure the focus is too reduce new users. How the fuck do you hit rock bottom solely on nicotine?

              • stonedemoman@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                How the fuck do you hit rock bottom solely on nicotine?

                Tobacco, the main ingredient in cigarettes, is more addictive than meth. If you can imagine somebody hitting rock bottom on meth then it should be easy enough to wrap your head around it. Especially when cigarettes contain added chemicals to make it more addictive than tobacco alone.

                Also, I would be inclined towards believing that the habit is mostly spread through peers. Price as a barrier to entry wouldn’t be effective at preventing peer pressure if they’re your first supplier.

                • SourWeasel@lemmy.today
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                  1 year ago

                  To clarify, the addictiveness of nicotine ≠ the addictiveness of tobacco. Even aside from the additives used by the tobacco industry, tobacco naturally contains an array of MAO inhibitors and other compounds that work in harmony with nicotine causing it to be far more addictive than nicotine itself. Pure nicotine is much farther down the scale of addictiveness, classed as a “weak reinforcer” in studies.

                  If you are interested in the subject, I highly recommend reading the studies and posts by Maryka Quik, director of the Neurodegenerative Diseases Program at SRI International. I first found out about her in an interesting article published in Scientific American — LINK.

                • Jake Farm@sopuli.xyz
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                  1 year ago

                  I call bullshit on that. Not to meantion the danger of meth is the physically damage it causes starting from the very first dose.

        • cjsolx@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Okay so here we are speculating about this, but there’s data on this isn’t there? Is it not the case that countries who tax tobacco more have all but eliminated it? I’m not well versed on the subject, but I think it’s a bit silly to just pull this out of your ass as if it were fact. Here’s a link to an ncbi article that talks about it. I’m sure there’s plenty more out there to show one way or the other, so I’m interested to know whether you have anything to back up your stance.

          • stonedemoman@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Sure, and I agree that this should be approached with scepticism and not blind bias.

            I’m basing this off tobacco being the third most addictive substance on the planet.

            Being that dependent on a substance suggests that practical decision-making and rational thinking, such as adding motivation to quit through price, is certainly not going to be the most effective way to reduce dependency while also further harming those that fail to break their dependency.

            Edit: Also I just want to point out, again, that I was never referring to tax. From what I saw there’s not enough conclusive data for me to form an opinion one way or the other on the effectiveness of increasing tobacco tax . All of my comments are about this ridiculously assanine ban, or the increased prices that come as a result of this ban.

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          This is effectively a Pigouvian tax, and will absolutely keep some people from smoking.

          Also higher prices do not necessarily mean the industry is making more money. Far more likely, given the saturation of competition, that they simply cost more to make.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              This is not an expression of an opinion. These are statements of fact. As in our other discussion, I am simply explaining things to you.

              You not liking these facts does not make them less true.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Would you like a citation on what Pigouvian taxes are, how the cigarette industry is flooded with competition, or that putting further regulations on products makes them more expensive to produce?

                  I assumed you could Google any of these but I can do it for you. Fair warning, you’ll be getting a “let me Google that for you” link.

                  Not one of these facts is even remotely controversial so my mind is a bit boggled that you’d even try to contest any of them