The senator said he has “a hard time understanding” why Trump’s legal issues don’t “seem to be moving the needle” with more voters.
Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) called out the majority of Iowa Republican caucus voters who baselessly believe that President Joe Biden did not win the 2020 election legitimately.
“I think a lot of people in this country are out of touch with reality and will accept anything Donald Trump tells them,” Romney, who announced in September that he is not seeking reelection, told CNN journalist Manu Raju on Wednesday.
About 65% of Iowa caucusgoers said they believe former President Donald Trump’s lie that the 2020 election was “stolen” from him, according to entrance poll data.
I cannot understand how conservatives in the us that do not buy in to the maga talking points can still vote for their party.
They have seen the checks and balances in action so all they need to do is stay home one election cycle to give a clear signal… this is not the direction they want. This will force the Republican party to face the maga extremists and go back to their normal ways. Which still is not good but at least not beholden to a narcissist wannabe dictator.
The problem is that this didn’t start with Trump. He is just the perfect type of candidate to harness the lightning.
That mentality started with Lee Atwater and has slowly mutated into what it is today. All of the signs were there. It’s why John McCain had such a hard time and why he had to have a “firebrand” as a running mate
The group at the center of a lot of the mutation is Fox News. Without their dedication to creating an alternate universe of reality, I don’t think things would be as bad.
There’s a pretty good documentary on Lee Atwater called Boogey Man and it’s on Prime right now.
Always thought it was super weird that John McCain was too left for some people
The modern Conservative movement found President Eisenhower too far to the Left.
Hell, some John Birch Society loons thought Nixon was too far to the left.
Nixon.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mad-magazine-super-patriot/
Original cartoon was in 1968, and nothing has changed since. Well, maybe the part about them hating the ‘Very Rich.’
I hate absolutely everyone just on general principle. I guess that makes me a Super Duper Mega Ultra Patriot!
Incidentally, McCain was the last Republican presidential candidate I seriously evaluated as a possible choice, though I did end up voting for Obama.
At the time, I thought that if we had McCain as President, we wouldn’t have to listen to the GOP go after Clinton for four years. I soon realized that any Dem, no matter who, was demonic in their eyes.
That’s true, but Obama really broke their brains… I wonder what it was about him that made them so upset. Hmmm.
Probably because they hate brown…
Brown mustard!
Look up ‘Travelgate’ and Vince Foster. They were creating Clinton scandals from Day Zero. I know a lot of people who think that if they’d held their fire until they had Monica they could have actually gotten Bill Clinton impeached and thrown out. But by the time they got an actual offense everyone could see that it was a witch hunt.
He had some shitty beliefs and policies but dude was a POW. I could respect him for that.
reminiscent of Bush getting respect for his TX ANG service (which many think he didn’t even complete) vs. John Kerry’s actual vietnam service.
Which got ‘swift boated’ by a bunch of chuds the media gave way more attention to than should have ever happened.
Rupert Murdoch makes me want to believe in hell.
It predates Atwater. We should acknowledge the fact that Republicans planned a coup around the same time as Hitler’s beer hall putch. FDR then cut a deal with the fascist Republicans to temporarily pass his new deal policies. In exchange for not prosecuting and locking them up.
We should also acknowledge the fact that the man most likely to have been tapped as their fascist dictator had. His son and grandson go on to be president of the United States. Some of the most damaging ones
That isn’t to downplay Atwater and his contemporaries. They managed the merger of the two most evil groups in modern American history. After the Democratic party purged itself. The fact is the Republican party has been anti-democratic and authoritarian since nearly the start of the 20th century.
We should acknowledge the fact that Republicans planned a coup around the same time as Hitler’s beer hall putch.
Do you have a link on that, that someone can read up on?
Read more history:
Read more history:
That was a wild read, especially seen through the lens of current events.
One part of it that caught my eye was this…
testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans’ organization
Really gave off some Starship Troopers novel vibes.
Unfortunately, I’m not aware of anything good that lays this out specifically… Or anything truly authoritative. But do a deep dive on the business plot AKA the Wall Street putch.
The fact there isn’t a lot of documentation about it is almost as damning as if there was. So yes this gets a bit into conspiracy theory territory. But it is conspiracy theory well-backed by history and rationality.
Official accounts tend to only name the person that contacted to enlist Butler. Gerald MacGuire. Who promised Butler half a million troops to march on Washington as well as large financial backing. All to stop Roosevelt and his new deal.
There were hearings held on it. Investigations even. The New York Times a long with much US media at the time initially called it a “gigantic hoax”. That characterization later turned to “alarmingly true” and that “definite proof had been found that the much publicized Fascist march on Washington”
So then, if this was alarmingly true. And definitive proof had been found. Who were these 500,00 troops? Who were these financial backers? Why don’t we know? Why was no one really punished? Why is this so sketchy, and why have people generally been okay with this?
What we do know, is that the Republican party was traditionally the party of industrialists and corporations. And that many of the owners of industry and corporations sympathized with the Nazis. IBM for instance, helping the Nazis create a computerized system to track Jews on way to slaughter. And Dow chemical helped them to create the gas to kill them with. We know for a fact that Republicans have gnashed their teeth, moaning about The new deal for the last century. As well as the fact that despite not knowing the names. A number of Republican senators were implicated.
The most rational explanation I’ve seen for it. Happens to coincide with FDR’s New deal. Basically claiming that in return for not expelling, prosecuting, or punishing those involved. They had to help pass his new deal package.
There’s a lot going on behind the scenes in US government that rarely gets documented and publicized. That FDR used leverage to get the new deal passed seems supremely believable. And what better leverage than “We know you’re a fascist and a traitor. And we could prove it”. The package secured his legacy. In many ways it’s a very rational, and in the short term, beneficial exchange. The long term effects of letting fascism fester unpunished however. I think all of us are well versed in these days.
We should acknowledge the fact that Republicans planned a coup around the same time as Hitler’s beer hall putch. FDR then cut a deal with the fascist Republicans to temporarily pass his new deal policies. In exchange for not prosecuting and locking them up.
Are you talking about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot ? I didn’t know much about this until I looked it up.
Yes. It is some of the most sus stuff in US history. That gets glossed over so quick and easy. Typically with history teachers, etc. Never even helping to make people make basic connections surrounding it. It’s just a plot by some businesses that happened. The end. Sketchy as hell That we know it happened. And supposedly there was damning evidence. But we don’t know what any of that evidence was or who all it implicated. Talk about your actual deep state.
The thing is, Atwater understood how to appeal to the moderates. As long as you didn’t come right out and say it, you could deny it.
Once you’ve said it out loud, you can’t go back.
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I think I was actually looking for the Frontline one (what I had seen). Thanks!
There is a deep schism in America. One that conservatives have slowly been losing. Progress is made and the conservative ideal of life (which has served them very well and they are quite comfortable with) has been chipped away at for decades. Obama becoming President brought it all to a head. The country was taken over by folks who don’t look like them and don’t think like them. They are just as afraid of losing their country to the left as the left is afraid of Trump’s fascism.
Trump, regardless of any flaws he could have, has basically made the cold war that they’d been slowly losing hot, and they think that’s their ticket to turning things around and winning. And he’ll turn on a dime to attack anyone, so they just need to be on his side and wait for the left to be effectively destroyed and that will preserve their way of life. And so they are fanatically loyal to him and to a large degree will bear any pain as long as it hurts the right people more.
So they won’t turn away from Trump no matter what and he’s made it easy for them by providing the lie that he’s under attack by a vast conspiracy so they can believe all his legal woes are purely political if that makes them feel more comfortable. They believe in him because he is their champion. He is their Goliath. Their Achilles. Their god-appointed savior.
They don’t want the status quo, because progress was slowly happening under it. They want a hot war and Trump will deliver. And they’re too willfully blind to see the cost that must eventually be paid.
People like that do not think long term. Otherwise, they woukd realize change is inevitable and unstoppable. This change might not be what they want or what any of us want (robot apocoloypse comes to mind) but its coming.
Note: investing does not count as long term thinking here. I’m talking about a social and political future.
There is a saying: Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line.
I’m convinced that the majority of the Republican party are held hostage by a disproportionately influential alt-right voting bloc. The alt-right is pretty much about 5-10% of the party but because they are loud and violent, they get 90% of the coverage.
Republican candidates, however, know that Republicans will vote Republican no matter what so they cater their message to the alt right, knowing that come the general election, even the most liberal Republican will still vote Republican.
The sad, sad thing is…Democrats are now there too. Liberals and democracy loving Americans have to vote Democrat. But the Democrats have a different problem. Because their voting bloc is more diverse, it’s harder to have a coalition. Many Democrats have to cater to moderates, and not progressives, in order to get the majority to vote. Not only that, but many moderates value “bipartisanship” whereas Republicans don’t and the Republicans know that. It’s why we get shit deals on bills and Republicans consistently going back on their word.
The alt-right is pretty much about 5-10% of the party but because they are loud and violent, they get 90% of the coverage.
I think that’s 5 to 10% number is a bit low.
I think there’s a larger swath of the population that buy into certain belief systems so much that they make themselves delusional to anything else, unable to see the truth of things.
Or even if there’s a moment when they see the truth, they are unable to deal with the fact that they’ve been conned/ignorant, and retreat back to what is safe and feels good for them.
It’s ironic actually that that section of the population came up with the term “the wolf in sheep’s clothing” but can’t see the wolf when it’s standing in front of them, wearing a sheep outfit.
One of the truths that America fails to accept over generations now is that a large swath of the population who really wouldn’t mind being controlled, and see things the way they want to see them, versus how they really are.
We really shouldn’t underestimate the numbers of the population of these kind of people, no matter what the ramifications of that means and how hard it is to deal with.
all they need to do is stay home one election cycle to give a clear signal
Perhaps they too have constant messaging from their party to hold their noses and vote for him this time or joe “will destroy their way of life”
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Because they hate women, minorities, and poor people more than they disagree with Trump. That’s the real problem with this country…
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That’s not true! I’ve met some people that voted for Trump in 2016 that have come to regret it.
I can’t say the same thing about people that still plan to vote for him in 2024, though.
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It’s easy to armchair quarterback this. There were a lot of unknowns, and a lot of projection going into 2016. There was also the fact that Clinton, for better or worse, was deeply unpopular. There was also a lot more faith in the system to keep him from doing much harm. It seems obvious now, but it wasn’t clear back then exactly what we were walking into.
As an example, there were voices saying from the beginning that he would refuse to leave office. But the way the system is designed, the person doesn’t leave office, the office leaves the person. Once the term ends (automatically, I might add), they become just another trespasser in the white house. He would have to launch a fucking coup to stay in power. Well, guess what happened…
Above all else, he showed exactly how fragile the entire system is and continues to be. In the 3 years since, we have done almost nothing to fix that. This is why it’s so alarming to people that he could win again.
The fact that there are some who came to learn from this mistake gives me some hope for this country. I just hope there are enough of them.
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I might get downvoted to hell for this, but hopefully you hear me out before you do. I knew nothing of politics most of my life prior to 2016. It was never on my radar and most of the time when I did vote it was essentially just how my family members voted. I did not think for myself back then. That was my mistake. And so I voted for Trump the first time knowing nothing outside of the “email scandal”. But my own ignorance and laziness to be informed is no excuse.
I have since been on a vigilant crusade of self reflection and self correction to better understand myself. This mistake on my part which has motivated me to spend the rest of my life to be more informed, not just politically, but also with history, economics, social and culture issues as well, the whole nine yards so to speak. Within Trumps first 100 days in office, I knew I made an absolutely huge, huge mistake and I vowed never again. In the years that have followed, I’ve amassed a wealth of knowledge I previously never had from learning more of the Constitution of the US/Bill of Rights, as well as my states own Constitution, and I’ve read numerous books on US history from how the government functions, to Civil War to Civil Rights to better inform myself of how we got here.
I’ve been in horror watching everything unfold since 2016. Not being politically aware/involved before this was my mistake. I’ve read books from my local library on How Democracies Die to How Fascism Works to better grasp what is going on because having perspective matters. Looking back, I can see the type of media my family consumed affected my decision at the voting booth, but it was my mistake that I never dug deeper or tried to objectively learn the truth of things. I used to be the type that naively thought “both parties are the same” (they absolutely are not), but it was my mistake to remain ignorant for many years.
Shortly after the 2016 election, I was second guessing myself, thought I was taking crazy pills, and everything Trump was saying and doing I was in major conflict with. Prior to 2016, I never read/heard political news, but after 2016, everything I read was political news. Ignorance may have been bliss, but it’s no excuse not being informed. That was my mistake. I did a few of those ‘which political party are you’ type of online quizzes. Turned out my views on social issues, drug issues, prison reform, environmental issues, education, military, etc were aligned 80% of the time with the Democratic Party. Really blew my mind, since I was more or less raised to vote Red. Diving into History and learning about the Republican tactics from the Southern Strategy to Obstructing anything Democrats do, to blowing up the deficit while in office, to only cutting taxes for the wealthy, to saying they support the troops but do nothing for them, to overturning Roe v Wade, among 100 other things they’ve done really woke me up that I’ve been misled for so long.
I hope to never make a mistake like that again. My family is all still very pro-Trump, I’m the black sheep in the family, but I don’t care what they think knowing what they are still willing to support. Since 2016, I’ve had numerous debates with my family, almost always civil discussions, but they always move the goalposts…they never move an inch from their Republican entrenched mindset since they watch/listen to Fox News and right wing AM radio every single day. It was my mistake I ever listened to them. I hope to never make a mistake like that again.
tl;dr I naively voted for Trump in 2016 and within the first 100 days instantly regretted it and vowed never again to make a mistake as monumental as that by being better informed. Took an online test, turned out I was always Democrat leaning with my views on issues.
I appreciate the self-reflection and steps you’ve taken to better understand yourself, your surroundings, and the world. No downvote from me; you’re exactly the type of person that we need more of.
Mormon beliefs are no more ridiculous than pretty much every other major world religion.
You could just say “kinda like religious people, they’ll believe whatever they like.”
Which is often the problem with Trumpers who are frequently also religious and have now conflated the two thinking he’ll usher in the rapture or some crap.
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Other religions have the benefit of age making them harder to fact check. Mormons its just plain to see they are coocoo bananas.
You have Mormons which to some within is like “alright I know this is probably not 100% accurate, but I like the culture” and then you have scientology… which I have yet to have anyone adequately explain, let alone defend… It’s like some sort of money cult that never died and has space demons… idk?
Scientologys theology is a carelessly thrown together add-on to a self help program that involves what amounts to blackmail. From my take on cults the grounds for belief are less important than the social obligation cult members have to each other. It’s a hierarchy and people will put the bit in their mouth if they simply get to hold the reigns of another.
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No, Mittens, some Republicans are out of touch with reality. Trump’s supporters definitely are.
I would say all republicans.
I agree. Anyone that was a republican before Jan 6 and hasn’t changed their party affiliation is firmly in the “I’m ok with an orange faced dictator” boat.
The filter applies starting with Watergate, when Ford pardoned Nixon to be precise. Prior to that was the last time you can say the Republican party had any good in it.
I never had any doubt that, even if I didn’t vote for them or agree with their policies, at least Regan, and the bushes would willingly step down from the presidency if they lost. That’s the key difference.
I’d argue a lot of them are perfectly aware of how shitty they are, they just enjoy being shitty people.
They are like the high school seniors who have figured out that they’ll never get into college or get a good job. They are going to screw things up for everyone else, because what else is there?
I disagree. For example, a billionaire knows that Democrats want to raise his taxes and decrease his wealth. So it’s pragmatic for him to vote for Republicans, despite having so much money it ceases being a unit of exchange and becomes just a scoreboard.
This would make sense if Democrats actually raised taxes significantly on the wealthy.
Democrats threaten to do it, Republicans absolutely won’t. Rationally GOP is the safer bet.
edit: “Rationally” from a billionaire’s point of view, not from a social or moral one.
Rationally, the GOP is the safer bet.
You are out of your mind.
You missed my point there, bud.
If you’re a billionaire who only cares about your money, and your choices are between one party that wants to cut your taxes and remove regulations on your businesses thereby decreasing your operating costs, and another party that talks about increasing your taxes and also increasing tax code enforcement, which do you support? It’d be irrational to not support the GOP and that was my original point- that not all Republicans are deluded Christofascists like Trump supporters. Immoral and evil, yes- but not insane.
To be absolutely clear, I am not in any way endorsing voting for any GOP candidate. They are an existential threat to America and their entire party should be disbanded and their leadership investigated for conspiracy and sedition at the very least.
I don’t know man sometimes not paying your guillotine insurance isn’t a safe bet.
I’m definitely in favor of making the rich pay all of their taxes.
Whereas an empathetic billionaire (they don’t actually exist) would recognize that they have enough money to pay for the entire lives of all of their descendants and actually interact with the Worker Class.
You don’t get to be that wealthy without taking advantage of other people. Nobody ever made a billion dollars by hard work alone.
Never forget that Mitt was happy to have Trump’s support in 2012. Mitt even made a few mild ‘birther’ jokes from time to time.
Even now he can’t come out and call Trump a traitor and a convicted sex criminal because that might hurt the Party.
Some?
I think “Some” is fair, there’s a good number who are all in on authoritarian fascism.
Some
Yeah really that’s every Teump supporter.
I will forever accept this as the correct spelling.
You know my favorite part about this? Even a guy who believes that a man who told fortunes by looking at a rock inside his hat one day dug up some golden plates and an angel helped him translate them and then took the plates away and that’s why he has to wear magic underwear realizes that Trump supporters are out of touch with reality. (Even if he does qualify it with ‘some.’)
Even a guy who believes
The Mormon, the Scientologist, and the 7th Day Adventist all making fun of those silly QAnoners. 🤣
Trump supporters are out of touch with reality
The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ […] ‘That’s not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do’
~ attributed by journalist Ron Suskind to an unnamed official in the George W. Bush administration who used it to denigrate a critic of the administration’s policies as someone who based their judgments on facts
These idiots and assholes have always been with us. Trump’s really piled on the clown make-up, but you can find like-minded delusional assholes going straight back to the administrations of our nation’s founders.
My fortune telling hat has an angry rabbit inside who screams obscenities that only I can hear, it’s my sorrowful duty to listen and report whatb he says.
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He’s not a fascist apologist. He’s the head fascist in the US.
I mean, Fox News and right wing radio shows have been pushing disinformation for years. It was there before Trump. I mean, how many people believe Obama is a Muslim? Election denial is just an off shoot of that with many of their propaganda pieces.
Nowadays though there’s just a cinematic universe of shows (PragerU, Shapiro, etc) for right wingers to cosplay their “reality” in.
Although, I’ll step in and say I don’t know if Ben actually is an election denier. I don’t think he would be.
Theres’ plenty of money in it .
Some?
Yeah, I imagine the rest know exactly what they’re doing.
The title of the article doesn’t align with what he said (which is “a lot”).
Some?
Most are out of touch with reality, the rest aren’t dumb, but are completely corrupt and seek to take advantage of a trump government to give themselves more power. They know how Trump and the republicans is, what he’s trying to do, but the truth is it will benefit them and that’s all that matters.
You can absolutely be both. Some of these assholes start out cynically playing the part and, as the grift grinds on, begin to get high on more and more of their own supply.
You can trace this back to Milton Friedman, Murray Rothbard, and Ludwig Von Mises. Then on to William F. Buckley and Rush Limbaugh. And now we’ve got the Ben Shapiros and Tucker Carlsons and Jordan B Petersons. They’re creating a new generation of Andrew Tates, Joe Rogans, and Elon Musks. People shitting out garbage and holding Big Gulp Challenges to see who can swallow the most of it down. And those people become the prophets of the next generation.
There’s always some amount of money in being the most high profile dupes. That keeps the wheel turning for the rest of us.
That’s how Romney spells All
Being out of touch with reality is what it takes to vote Republican nowadays.
You can thank corporate-owned “local news” for that.
Wait…. SOME?
BODY
ONCE
TOLD ME
THE WORLD
IS GONNA
ROLL ME
I laugh at articles I see which site “independent voters”. If you’re still claiming to be undecided on Trump in 2023, you’re brain dead or full of shit or both. You know exactly who he is by now
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Because cults.
