• Zachariah@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Consciousness being an emergent property of the universe instead of the universe being an emergent property of consciousness.

    • Hammocks4All@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      This is a good answer. Bernardo Kastrup argues this; check out his very eloquently titled book Why Materialism is Baloney.

    • Daft_ish@lemmy.worldOP
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      6 months ago

      Thank you for this. I was just thinking about it and how it implies consciousness is shared or linked in some way.

      • Semperverus@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        We are all the same entity, just different instances, existing inside of the greater consciousness that is the universe. We have performed every great and evil act to ourselves, as we are all the same entity.

          • Semperverus@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            I dont mean that we are the same as in each human is exactly like one another.

            I mean we are the same as in there is no “we”, “we” is an illusion. There is only one of us, experiencing existence through the lens of each living creature simultaneously. “We” are the universe itself. The humans, the animals, all of the matter and energy are just perturbations in our collective fabric. The current body in which you are experiencing life is just one of many appendiges.

            You are yourself and you are your parents. You are the primordial cavemen. You are hitler, and you are ghandi.

            All of these experiences of each life feed back into the greater consciousness.

            • Daft_ish@lemmy.worldOP
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              6 months ago

              In a way, but we are also different and our own experiences/thoughts belong to only us. As far as we know.

              I have a story I want to tell where in our dreams we reconnect with the “tree of life” and this is our opportunity to split from combined consciousness or recombine with the singularity.

              In this space we are searching and experiencing different realities, lifetimes, or similar lifetimes where only a single choice is made different, where time isnt exactly 1:1 and when we wake there are remnants of our experiences in these states. It will explain how death isn’t a inevibiltiy but in this search we find where we think we want to be. It’s just that it’s a vast sea and the searching never truly ends.

              Makes me think about how many might chose to be a cell or more complex life.

    • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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      6 months ago

      I came here to say this.

      Modern physics already gives special status to observer objects and properties that “non-observer” objects don’t have, and every universe needs to be defined from some particular point of view instead of “objectively” from outside. There are a couple other weird things but those are two big ones to me.

      And so a physicist from the 2100s where physics is defined in relation to consciousness asks a modern physicist, so why did you think it was all just atoms and numbers in an “objective” universe?

      And the modern physicist says what the fuck are you talking about don’t get all weird and religious on me

      And the future physicist says okay dude good luck then

      • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        You’re fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of an “observer” - it’s not a conscious entity literally observing something. It’s simply an object whose state depends on the quantum particle in question.

        • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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          6 months ago

          Why does the detector in the double slit experiment not cause an interference pattern if its state depends on which slit the particle went through, but then it resets its internal state after, without transmitting the result?

          • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            There’s no way to fully erase the state, as information cannot be destroyed. There will always be consequences of the state measurement in the detector (e.g. through heat).

            • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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              6 months ago

              Absolutely false. You have apparently never heard of the exact aspects of quantum mechanics which so surprised physicists when they were first discovered? (which are pretty much its defining feature) IDK, it kind of sounds that way.

              I’m honestly not saying it’s as simple as the pop science oversimplification of QM, even though my comment was kind of invoking exactly that oversimplification. But yes, things like having the detector erase its measurements without recording them were exactly the types of experiments which started to point to something much stranger going on than just one object’s state depending on another.

              Citation

              Wheeler’s delayed-choice experiments demonstrate that extracting “which path” information after a particle passes through the slits can seem to retroactively alter its previous behavior at the slits.

              Quantum eraser experiments demonstrate that wave behavior can be restored by erasing or otherwise making permanently unavailable the “which path” information.

              Emphasis is mine. If I’ve misunderstood something then fill me in, sure.

          • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
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            6 months ago

            There’s apparently a answer to this I’ve been told by physicists, but I’ve never quite understood it lol.