I wish I got to do fun little projects like this at my job. Anyway, this proof of concept shows that hydrogen would be a great alternative to propane and natural gas for cooking. Hat tip to @hypx@mastodon.social.
Fun protect! But replacing gas with hydrogen seems really tricky. Hydrogen is much harder to transport without leaks because it’s such a tiny molecule. Electric seems better than trying to still burn hydrogen.
The best way to store and transport hydrogen is to combine it with carbon so that it becomes a convenient liquid fuel. As a bonus, then you don’t even need fuel cells to make electricity from it, but can instead simply burn it in something called an “internal combustion engine”
This is just synthetic fossil fuel with extra steps. Lol.
Exactly.
Hydrogen is mostly a greenwashing scam; it isn’t any better than what we already have.
Nah, combustion engine is just one step up from the steam engine, such a wasteful technology, should long be in a museum.
First thing i think about in using a hydrogen-carbon fuel, is fuel cell (no better word for “Brennstoffzelle”?) to create electricity. Next up a steam turbine.
Tons of experts believe the only way hydrogen based transportation makes sense is by using it to fuel heavy transport right at the source instead of trying to transport it via pipeline.
Yup. Produce it with wind or solar at the warehouse, then load it onto trucks or forklifts or whatever. It’s a nice little closed ecosystem.
As Toyota has demonstrated (and speaking from my own experience), it’s not that tricky. As for cooking with the stuff, sometimes you just need portability and/or a flame. Electric is a poor choice in those cases.
Portability is hard for hydrogen since you hadn’t liquify it without huge pressures and cryogenic temps, so you need big tanks. But cooking stoves does seem like a pretty good use case.
I think the experts who believes in this technology know a bit more than you and me who only read a few wiki pages.
If money is going into this, they also have a believable plan. But big oil certainly want you to think otherwise.
That’s an appeal to authority fallacy if I’ve ever seen one.
Huh? It’s big oil and the like who are pushing hydrogen over electricity.
And the problem with hydrogen is largely to do with the laws of physics, so it’s unlikely to change soon.
I don’t understand this suspicion. It’s easier to burn fossil fuels for electricity than to reform them into hydrogen.
Well yeah but they know their days of selling that are numbered, at least for lots of markets. If they can get people onto hydrogen they’ve got more money coming in for decades.
Compress it to 10,000psi and it gets portable enough.
Just need to waste a ton of energy extracting it then liquifying it then hoping that transport doesn’t face any issues (and I mean, considering our track record with petrol which doesn’t corrode everything it touches I sure as hell wouldn’t worry about it) and then fill up your personal car that could have simply been powered by electricity from the beginning…
Also, ever heard of energy density? Because hydrogen won’t win prizes on that front!
Wait wait wait, you’re telling me that taking electricity, sending it along wires, generating hydrogen with it via hydrolysis, packaging it, compressing it to an extreme degree, physically transporting it, putting it in pumps, pumping it into your car, then doing reverse hydrolysis to charge a battery that then powers an electric motor…
Is less efficient than sending electricity along some wires to your car, charging its battery, to drive an electric motor?
I’m shocked!
They’ll do anything not to build EVs /s
TBH I respect Toyota for being realistic more than grifters like Musk. The fact is that car will never be a sustainable replacement for cars. They’re here to save the auto cartels, not the planet.
But on the other hand public transit and LEVs are much more realistic. I would very much like to see a Toyota e-bike.
Surely an oven that inherently steams everything it cooks is quite a different tool to a regular oven? It probably works well with breads and similar products, though, so I guess that’d work as a pizza oven
Add a hydrogen generator and all you need is water and electricity to make the hydrogen. You don’t even have to transport it.
I’d much rather transport a bottle of hydrogen to a cookout than an electrolyzer. What if a power outlet isn’t available?
Hydrogen is very difficult to bottle. It tends to just slip out of anything you put it in because of how small the atoms are.
And also incredibly low density. So your bottle would likely be on a trailer.
If hydrogen is so difficult to bottle then how are there self-serve refuelling stations in operation?
Yes, there is a volumetric penalty, but it’s not that bad. At 10,000psi a 1 gallon hydrogen bottle has roughly the same energy as a 1lb bottle of liquid propane for camping.
An industrial machine designed to handle 10,000 psi gas is a little different from a tank you’d take to a BBQ.
A fuel station will also get resupplied regularly, so any small leaks are no big deal, as there will be a shipment of fresh fuel coming in a regular schedule. Your BBQ tank of hydrogen likely will need to be refilled regularly even if you don’t use it, as any valve that would be cheap enough to mass produce is not going to be able to keep hydrogen in for months while it sits in the garage.
Then there’s also the fact that most uses for gaseous hydrogen require the above 10,000 psi storage pressure. This allows a useful amount of hydrogen to be stored in a non-comically large container. 2 problems I see with this:
1.) a 10,000 psi container is fucking terrifying. If that things bangs into something and ruptures, it going to send shrapnel through a house.
2.) a propane like tank can be opened to the Atmosphere and does not have a regulator built into the tank because most people don’t know how to actually use a regulator. So a 10,000 psi tank with just a hand valve between the user and a jet of gas that can send the tank into the stratosphere does not sound like something that should be available at your local hardware store.
And I’d rather transport a cheap and widely available propane tank instead of an ultra high pressure hydrogen canister that can only be refilled at 3 places in the entire state.
Yes, but imagine a world where propane and other fossil fuels are no longer available. You’re going to lug a big battery around for an electric grill instead?
For what it’s worth hydrogen stations currently dispense at 10,000psi, which is considered “medium” pressure in the field. “Ultra high” pressure is considered an order of magnitude greater.
Yeah batteries would probably work. A large battery bank can have 1kwh of capacity, and induction stoves are about 1.5kw. Which means you could run a stove for about 40min. You could bring more for longer. I’m sure by the time you can’t get propane, batteries will have gotten much better too.
