The poll was improperly conducted and way too short for users to adequately find in time. This announcement is the first I’m hearing about this discussion or poll at all.
I think this might be jumping the gun. Also, it’s poor form, imo, to change the focus of a community after it’s been established. It would make more sense to create /c/lemmyfossapps or something similar. Taking a broadly-focused community and narrowing it down after people have already joined feels wrong.
Those are my two cents, since I never got a chance to respond to the poll, which allegedly already had a pretty narrow margin.
Definitely agree.
The poll has been restored in the meantime, but I’m not sure if that federates with Kbin
I can confirm from kbin to the degree it matters the original poll post is listed as “deleted_by_author” in my comments page, manually opening the URL for the page shows no comments, only the total number of favorites and reduces (possibly only the reduces from kbin specifically as the split shown is 71 up/2 down which is much different than the listed number of down in other comments)
FYI, I raised the issue to the LW admins on !moderators@lemmy.world
I still disagree with how this was executed:
- Voting on a post is not a fair way to conduct a poll because (1) each instance shows a different amount of votes due to federation delays/issues, (2) some instances disable downvotes, and (3) downvoting decreases the visibility of posts in the main feed
- The poll only ran for 20 hours and you didn’t state when it was going to close beforehand
I’m putting further pressure on this because:
- The community seems to be divided pretty evenly on this proposal
- This community is named lemmyapps, not fosslemmyapps
- Some of us have privacy-respecting, non-tracking, no-ads apps that do not follow the FOSS model for good reasons
- Your accounts are all less than 10 days old. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but an introduction from our new moderator would have established a bit more credibility before making quick changes like this.
Here are some alternative solutions we could discuss:
- Leave this community as-is and create a new community for free, open-source apps
- Prioritize free, open-source apps in this community with megathreads or title requirements
- If you’re still wanting to restrict this community to FOSS, do another poll that more accurately and fairly counts votes (using something like StrawPoll potentially).
Regardless, please take the time needed to do this fairly and consider both sides. Changing the topic of a 5k-member community based on a 50/50 or even 60/40 vote should not be taken lightly.
Well put.
appears you might be banned from an instance.
Do you have more details on this?
Oh, spoke too soon maybe, looks like it might have been accidental https://awful.systems/modlog?page=1&userId=3525901
I’ll remove that from my comment
FYI, I raised the issue to the LW admins on !moderators@lemmy.world
our accounts are all less than 10 days old
And ?
and it appears you might be banned from an instance.
I don’t think so if i am can you give some proof as i would geniunly love to know
Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but an introduction from our new moderator would have established a bit more credibility before making quick changes like this.
I didn’t feel the need to . And i don’t think mods even do that
If you’re still wanting to restrict this community to FOSS, do another poll that more accurately and fairly counts votes
I can do another poll if the /c/ wishes me to but for the moment let the /c/ stay like this.
Might have spoken too soon, sorry. I saw you were banned on awful.systems but looks like the ban was an accident (modlog).
You don’t have to do any of that, I was just pointing out that none of us really know who you are, where you came from, or how you became a mod here. That makes the decisions you’re making for this community more difficult to receive.
If another poll (through StrawPoll or something else more fair) is the only option you’ll consider, I vote for that. I still think a separate community for FOSS Lemmy apps would be best given the results so far, but it’s ultimately up to you
I know about the ban i kinda asked the mod to.
I can do another poll if the /c/ wishes me to but for the moment let the /c/ stay like this.
This seems completely arbitrary, and a decision you made alone as opposed to at least half of the community’s will
That’s too bad, some of us simply want to retain ownership of what we create or are looking for a more sustainable model. I definitely see and respect the good intentions here though.
Also, in the interest of transparency, would you mind un-deleting the poll post and discussion post so others can see the discussions if they wish?
I am sorry i when i delete things on lemmy i have a habit of over writing them as some clients still shows the deleted posts. So i have restored the post but the posts body is gone tge comments are there though
Thanks!
No prob
The poll was definitely too short, I didn’t even get a chance to see it despite being subbed.
this decision was made as a community by conducting a poll
Would it be possible for you to link to said poll? I’m curious what the final votes were.
Curious about the poll too, I follow this community quite closely and haven’t seen it
It seems like the poll didn’t run for more than 20 hours, that seems a bit short?
Yeah i was goingbto let it run for 2 days but as i was about to become busy and i thought 20 hours would cover most timezones i wrapped it up.
People are usually active at the same time every day (e.g. in the evening) so it’s better to give it a few days.
I just finished my workday, yesterday at the same time the poll wasn’t there, now it’s closed.
Also be careful about vote propagation, here is the view from
https://discuss.tchncs.de/c/lemmyapps@lemmy.world
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !lemmyapps@lemmy.world
It must be an issue with federation try from sdf.org one if you want to see results.
https://sh.itjust.works/c/lemmyapps@lemmy.world shows similar numbers
https://lemm.ee/c/lemmyapps@lemmy.world too
How are you sure Lemmy.sdf.org is the correct one where two other main instances have different numbers?
Do you have the direct links to the same post at those instances? You might just be viewing the vote count from your instance at reddthat.com (which is fine but that’s just the votes from your instance).
The votes at the community’s home instance should be the correct ones e.g. whatever link that is at lemmy.world but I don’t have that one either.
Just out of curiosity which app do you use ?
I don’t know but as i hosted in that acc and people who federate with it can upvote it but the upvotes maybe missing ftom other inatances because of federation issues
Try from sdf.org instance which i hosted it on
Pretty sure that vote count isn’t correct. If I recall correctly the home instance of a community would have the total vote counts. When viewing a post from other instances you often just see the votes from users on that instance. I don’t know when/if/how that propogates to keep vote counts the same across different instances (assuming it does, I don’t think Lemmy devs place much value on tracking votes TBH).
What is the link to the post on lemmy.world itself, anyone have that?
e.g.
-14 votes https://lemmy.world/post/12235423
+1 vote https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/12576832
-12 votes https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/14852887
EDIT: Added lemmy.world, that should be the correct total vote count (thanks /u/Blaze@reddthat.com !)
Just for completion, here’s my home instance: https://sh.itjust.works/post/14996406
At the time of posting this comment, I see:
Instance Upvotes Downvotes Net World 57 71 -14 SDF 71 70 +1 div by 0 58 70 -12 SJW 57 70 -13 Vote federation issues aside, even the most positive value (SDF) is only a narrow win for the upvote result, which is pretty much exactly what I predicted. This is before we even account for users for whom downvotes are not an option.
I also take issue with the poll being wrapped up prematurely. With the some fluctuation in the federation of votes, and the net number of votes hovering around zero, one could simply wait until the votes tipped in their favour, and close the poll at that time. I’m not saying this is what was done, just that it would be possible.
Thanks,
FYI, I raised the issue to the LW admins on !moderators@lemmy.world
Thanks!
I deleted it fuck i shouldn’t have it was 71 to 65 i can maybe restore and link you the post but it was over written but you can still see the poll
So a six vote difference? I am sure there were at least six people like me who could not vote down because our instance blocks it.
You should’ve known this would be a problem when you signed up on those instances. Not trying to be rude just saying.
And you should have created the poll with the two options as comments rather so that users who can’t downvotes could upvote their preference.
Beehaw is the 12th most active Lemmy instance and doesn’t have downvotes, are you just ignoring their opinion?
@THE_MASTERMIND@lemmy.sdf.org, could you please revert the community to what it was when you took over (allowing non FOSS?)
Why do you care you said you use lemmy ui which is foss ?
I care because
- Lemmy is supposed to have better moderation practices than Reddit. I’m sorry, but the recent events aren’t really showing the transparency and community spirit we are supposed to have on Lemmy
- When I talk about Lemmy, I use the mobile clients as a reason to use it rather than Reddit. I usually refer to this community to show how active development is. Having this community refusing to show non FOSS clients gives the impression that Lemmy is only for strong FOSS advocates, while it should be more tolerant
But lemmy is a more FOSS and privacy based platform than reddit and with all the third party reddit app fiasco we will be better without it . Also i have made a megathread for lemmy apps for all platforms which are foss only and there are tons of apps that can cater to everyone’s taste i don’t think you will missing anything by not using closed source ones . And about the moderation this /c/ might have needed to allow closed source apps when lemmy was starting out and there were some apps like boost or sync which were better than the foss ones but that is not true anymore as there are a lot of really good foss apps which can outperform closed ones and we aren’t strapped for options . What do you think will happen if sync dev is sudeenly found out to be spying on users ? or just abandoned development if it is foss someone will foek it can you say that for proprietory ones ? Please understand i am taking this decision for the good of the community and to support foss devs and i stand to gain nothing from it even though many people have reported me i am going to stand by what i think is right which is FOSS apps for a FOSS service.
The question here isn’t even about the relevancy of non FOSS apps, it’s about how you changed this community without consulting the community members first.
Your position on FOSS is understandable (I get it, even if I don’t share it), but, as several members suggested to you, why don’t you create another community restricted to FOSS apps?
The poll results are in favor of restoring the community to the previous state. If you don’t think it’s a valid poll (which I would agree with), then why did you made the changes?
I escalated the issue to the LW admins on the moderators community, this is getting out of hang.
Blaze, thanks for being the advocate Lemmy needs.
Thank you, appreciated!
As I said, I raised the issue to the LW admins on !moderators@lemmy.world, feel free to follow that thread
You do know there are seperate subs for proprietry apps right RIGHT ? Go there for the love of god .
Or instead of subverting the will of the community, you could create /c/lemmyfossapps and moderate that, instead. It makes more sense to make a separate community than to fracture one that already exists.
Just listen to the community
