For non political content, not bad, of course a lot smaller than reddit, but it’s a good start.

But the left wing populism echochamber is a bit annoying. It’s ok to have an opinion, but all the silly so easy to refute things that get repeated here over & over again because it sounds nice & fits the agenda is just annoying… “Why do billionaires need more money?” because they’re addicted to ego & power, it’s not about the money. “The right wing are so violent, we are the good guys”, every other thread: eat the rich, prepare the guillotines. -insert a not so common incident that supports an agenda- 'see, this happens all the time, we should do -insert short sighted measure that will just cause different problems-. etc…

I’d love all those topics to be actually seriously discussed here, but so far it feels like it’s just edgy teens shouting whatever fits the popular narratatives…

Yeah, the policy causes more cars to be sold, which is also an important thing to take into account.

But you initially said “If most people replace their cars every three years they’re not getting to 80,000 km before they buy a new one.”, and that is plain wrong, the car is not scrapped after those 3 years, so when it changes owner for the first time is irrelevant. And that 80k km is worst case scenario, that assuming all electricity is generated in the least environmental way possible, in practice it’s often <40k km that there is already a break even because not all electricity is generated by coal.

That the ecosystem seems so complex that even developers don’t know how they should recommend their users should install an application. Haven’t encountered that yet on windows. And i’ve had plenty of people here tell me “yes, you CAN install deb packages, and many apps will GIVE you deb packages, and the ubuntu page says Debian packages is the very HEART of ubuntu. But you’d be insane to install something like that”. Does that sound like a good ecosystem, where people aknowledge that the best way to do stuff is ignore everything app developers & the makers of one of the largest distros say, and do the opposite and ignore apps that you can’t install in the way that i should magically know is the best way.

I stand by my words man, but you’re free to try to convince me :).

To install something you have to install it from the repository, and not download something from some webpage.

Ah yes, i should have known better than to rely on the documentation of the website of an application i should install. Do you guys really consider this a sane ecosystem? I google what kind of apps there are for what i want. I find the site of one i want to try, it says “here is a deb package for ubuntu”, and then hell ensues. And when i share this experience your reaction is “you should have known better” O_o… yeah no. This is just insanity. If according to you even the developers of applications fail to send their users in the right direction on how to get their application installed, there is probably little hope for a mere user like me.

Unlike on Windows, errors here are usually informative, and “something like …” is useless. We can’t trust you to determine if it’s vague or not.

Yeah, i’m a developer, the error i got was about as helpful as “nullreference exception”. I found the issue was the SMBv1 default by googling the exact error. Here it is for you “Failed to retrieve share list invalid argument”. Really helpful message :).

The article advises you to install GDebi from repositories (with a nice GUI) to do that. Have you done that?

Yes, and then got stuck since that tool failed to find something called gconf2 that is a dependency. Then i followed command line install instructions that also gave errors. Which the instructions found perfectly normal and expected, they said to then run an apt command to fix it, but then apt would just uninstall the application again (which i guess ‘fixes’ a botched installation).

But you find it normal that the application normally handling .deb files on linux just disappears on a popular beginner distro, and to install something i have to start googling and avoid all the links telling me to use the built in application that suddenly disappeared, to then find that one link that tells me “yeah, ubuntu made a huge mistake here, here’s how you fix it”.

Sorry, but this is just abysmal user experience. And yeah, i’m a developer, i can find my way around command line tools, but for something this basic? for real?

Your fault is treating it wrong. If others don’t need it and you need it, why cry that desktop Linux sucks? Maybe it sucks for you, well, sorry.

So i should expect every little thing to be a minor or major struggle, with the rich ecosystem of linux apps be so fragmented to mostly just work on the distro the developer uses, which you have to guess since they might still mention your distro on their website, even if they don’t really properly support it.

If treating it wrong means not making linux my hobby, and just wanting to use it like i can with my headless servers, then it’s indeed not for me. And yeah, i’ve head my moments of frustration with my synology/raspberries. But most of the things i want to do on them do work from the first try, and if a gui is offered, it just works. If that’s too high of an expectation, then you just come across as delusional for me. I don’t expect everything to be perfect, but for it to be this bad in 2023 just seems ridiculous. And maybe i just happened to land in a perfect storm of things that don’t work on ubuntu being the first things i try. But then being like “maybe linux isn’t for you”. I’m a professional developer running multiple headless linux machines and a dozen docker containers for various things. If it isn’t for me, who is it for O_O…

Ahh the favourite pasttime of the linux community: blaming the user.

See, i install ubuntu. It has this files application to brows your files in a gui. I click other sources, it detects my SMB shares, i click on one of those, and i get some vague error, i no longer have the exact error text but it was something like “item not found in list”. You feel that on a fresh desktop install clicking the files tab, and then clicking the discovered network share, and expect it being able to handle a protocol that got exploited in 2017 being disabled, and then throwing an error “item not found in list” is me just randomly clicking around expecting a windows experience and me not being able to read error messages? You’re so far off the mark that it’s not even funny anymore. Yeah, i’ve got a dozen containers on my synology with proper permission management and shared users between those containers, properly exposing some to the internet, and having set up watchtower to automatically update everything to keep it secure since i’m such a windows user that doesn’t know anything else…

Ubuntu does still have a GUI to install software from .deb packages, I think.

dude, CLICK THE LINK I GAVE, IT DOESN’T. and what do you mean install a package for another distribution. https://dockstation.io, see the link “download for ubuntu/debian”. I’m just doing what the first application i thought of trying tells me. Or do the developers of linux apps themselves have no clue how to support the most popular distro? According to you that may be the case, but that’s not my fault then.

And why did i google software? i entered “docker” in the package manager but didn’t find much, so i thought i’d give google a try. also to get some reviews/experience of people trying the applications, i could blindly try packages, but reading some user experiences makes the choice easier.

I’m willing to engage this discussion with you :).

I don’t believe i’m entitled to any labor for free, but i do oppose the mechanic of huge corporations starting with good & free services, and when they then become a monopoly, suddenly i’m “entitled and want labor for free and an idiot” when i don’t agree with all the enshittification, money grabbing, privacy violations, and everything else they think they can get away with.

If you start a service with a certain premise (it being free, little ads, …), and then once you’re a monopoly and want some extra money start changing all that, while making sure any competition has as little chance as possible to challenge you… yeah, good luck with that XD.

And i’ll make a predition, give it 5 years at most before game passes go through this phase. Currently all the gamers are “wow, these are such good value”, once it gives the publishers enough of an excuse to stop allowing you to buy them, watch the same fragmentation & raised prices, enshittification, possibly even advertising getting added to it once you’re stuck using such a system.

I don’t believe i’m “entitled”, but i won’t support such tactics & monopoly abuse. They came to power by pretending to be a free site to share videos on, and they’ll die that way as far as i’m concerned. Good riddance.