Need this nationwide. I hate having fees added on to the price of what I’m ordering.

  • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
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    6 months ago

    Only fees that are entirely optional — like leaving a tip for staff — can be left out of the posted price.

    Wrong move. They should have outlawed tipping too. No more hiring for shit wages and leaving adequate compensation up to chance. Bump up the menu price and pay your staff an enticing salary.

    • Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      You don’t need to ban tipping. Several countries don’t have a tipping culture and that’s because the waiters are paid adequately for their work. Tipping is seen as a bonus after exceptionally good service.
      The US should raise the minimum wage for restaurant workers and not make it the customer’s responsibility to make sure the waiter can pay their rent.

    • gila@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      Agreed, but overall a good move to address separate and much simpler issue of predatory pricing (for the customer)

      Heading to mother’s day lunch right now, set menu for $89 per person. Except it’s a 10% surcharge on Sundays, the only day that mother’s day is, so that price isnt really true at all.

      This in Aus which I’d normally argue has better common-sense policies such as requiring sales tax in the menu price

    • SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today
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      6 months ago

      Not disagreeing, just providing a counterpoint.

      Take your basic non super fancy restaurant, dinner for two with appetizers, entrees, desserts, a two rounds of drinks will probably be $100ish. And that table of two will be there for an hour. Assuming server gets 20% tip average, that’s $20 for the table. An average server will have four tables in their sections. That means if the restaurant is full, they are making $80 an hour in tips. They will get to keep 60% to 80% of that, the rest going in a tip pool that benefits kitchen staff, bussers, barbacks, etc. But they’ll still be making pretty good money.

      Of course if the restaurant is empty or they only have one or two tables with people seated, they are making less.

      The problem comes that if you get rid of this system, there’s a lot of financial risk for the restaurant owner. Currently they don’t have to pay the server or the staff very much, most of their compensation comes from tips, meaning there is less risk to them keeping the restaurant fully staffed if it’s not going to be busy. If you pay all these people are constant hourly, now there is risk on the restaurant owner in terms of staffing. Bring on too many staff when it’s quiet and they will lose a bundle. Don’t bring on enough staff when it’s busy and those people don’t have a financial incentive to bust their ass. It also becomes solely their job to ensure quality, because the server that spends half the time on their phone in the back room is making the same money as the server who is attentive to their tables. It also means less risk for hiring an inexperienced server, because if the server does a bad job they just won’t make good tips.

      All that said, I agree something has to change. I think perhaps one answer would be a law requiring that each restaurant put 15% of gross receipts into a virtual tip pool. That way they aren’t paying through the nose to staff and empty restaurant, there would be a line item on the check like ‘automatic gratuity paid the staff $whatever on this check, further tipping is optional’.

      • Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee
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        6 months ago

        dinner for two with appetizers, entrees, desserts,

        Why on earth would someone go out for dinner, have two starters, and then jump to dessert? 😂

        • TheFlopster@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Just in case this isn’t a joke, then this is probably a country difference. In America, “entree” is synonymous with “main course”. I know, I know. That’s not what entree means. But the fact remains.

          • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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            6 months ago

            Where im from ive never heard of that, entree is usually a starter snack to hold you over till the food is done. But this could also be a regional thing still.

      • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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        6 months ago

        there’s a lot of financial risk for the restaurant owner

        Risk for the business owner, what a concept. The workers aren’t there to defray risks for an owner, they’re doing a job. If the restaurant founder wants to push risk to their employees, make it a coop, then they can share in the profits as well as the risk.

        • SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today
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          5 months ago

          Well if the risk is that they are paying $300 an hour in unnecessary labor, that’s a risk that would put almost any restaurant under. Perhaps a better answer would be a commission-based system, just build a 20% commission into the price of the food rather than making it a mandatory tip or a line item on the receipt. Problem is that makes marketing harder because you have to explain why your food is 20% more expensive than the competition and try to get people to understand that their bill will actually be the same or less. It also doesn’t necessarily incentivize the employee to provide better service. And while I conceptually agree that should be the responsibility of the manager, in practice it’s difficult. I’m not sure what the solution is. I agree there needs to be one.

    • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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      6 months ago

      A restaurant in my area recently put up signs saying they pay their staff a living wage, raised prices, and forbaid tips. More like this, please.

      • RecallMadness@lemmy.nz
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        6 months ago

        Meanwhile, most places in London pay at least the minimum wage (not lower for waitstaff, but not necessarily living wage) and tack on an optional 12-20% service charge, and don’t give it to staff.

        You have to determine if the service charge goes to staff, awkwardly refuse the service charge, and (optionally) tip your waitstaff in cash (and if you do, ask they split it with back of house)

        The times we’ve done it seems to make the staff happy. Still a shit thing to do.

      • Serinus@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        They won’t make nearly as much as they did with tipping. I expect either tipping to come back to that place or the servers to leave for somewhere better.

    • bean@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I’m not a California resident but once on a visit I ate at a place. Paid the bill. No tip. Left. The shopkeeper chased me on the street to catch up and ask why I didn’t tip, and wasn’t the food good, etc. Embarrassed, I was with a friend who is a resident… I told her yes it was fine. “Then why no tip?!” Internally: Because it’s a tip? I didnt get some kind of exceptional service there. If anything they left us alone really. So what was I tipping for exactly? why not just charge a different price, etc. Externally: “Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t know”

      • frostysauce@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Yeah, but you know how the system works, so you intentionally stiffed someone out of their income. Regardless of if the system is correct or just it exists and you don’t get to just opt out without being a gigantic asshole.

        • bean@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Ok… Thanks for your input I guess, but as a European, the practice of tipping isn’t ingrained in my culture as it may be in yours. Frankly, I find it bizarre and from the outside I also see many in your own culture find it bizarre also. If not downright predatory of businesses on customers.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Why not? If the waitron is counting on an “optional” tip and doesn’t get it, maybe they have more incentive to insist on fair pay or move along. … that’s what I say to myself , anyway, as I’m leaving the tip

          • bean@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            If I go to McDonald’s and they serve me food. I don’t tip them. the same thing happened at that smaller restaurant. If all they did is walk the food to my table and that’s it, then why am I tipping some percent extra for them to walk the plates 3 meters (~15 feet)?

    • Eezyville@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      6 months ago

      Agreed. I hate tipping. Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money. More power to them but tipping is just a way for these businesses to keep their labor low. Many other countries don’t have tipping and can still have restaurants. For some reason the US needs tipping to be able to have restaurants.

      • cm0002@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money

        The funny thing is even if restaurants are forced to pay a living wage and not have tips as a subsidy, these servers would actually still be able to do that. Maybe not AS much as before, but between that and an actual living wage is bet they still would come out ahead lol

        • iAmTheTot@kbin.social
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          6 months ago

          A lot (not all) of workers in the service industry like tipping, actually. They get cash a lot of the time, which they like, and can under report on their taxes. Most people opposed to banning tipping, in my experience, are actually the people receiving the tips.

          • krashmo@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            And yet many of those people are also the first to complain about having inconsistent paychecks. Funny how that works

            • hark@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              Something tells me these same workers wouldn’t like tipping so much if people didn’t feel obligated to tip under threat of food tampering (real or imagined) or other threat/shame tactics.