Tiannenmen was an American backed color revolution.
I was with you speaking truth about what happened in the square vs. side streets, but now you went off the rails.
The protesters were Dengists. The whole thing started when Hu Yaobang died, making people fear that anti-reformist forces within the party would get the upper hand. They were backing up one faction against the other, predictably, the hardliners wanted to crack down on them just as they wanted to get rid of the reformers. That’s why this turned ugly instead of getting resolved in the reformist way, which they were busy doing, having conferences with the protestors.
Background: Weeks prior to the violent escalation of the protests, the CIA maintained a network of informants among the student protesters as well as within Chinese intelligence services, which it used to monitor the situation.[9] . The CIA actively aided the student activists in forming their movement, providing them various equipment including typewriters and fax machines according to a U.S. official.[9]
Oooooh typewriters. Did they also send pencils? Other things that the protestors could get themselves, or do without? That could have come from other places if the CIA didn’t supply them to their moles, to distribute? How many pencils did the protesters use that were not procured through the CIA?
The whole colour revolution thing is a KGB myth. Populations cannot be influenced like that, it’s just not how social dynamics work. It’s a power fantasy they never managed to implement for themselves, but believe the other side has, because they’re that kind of paranoid.
In any case: Yes, the students were Dengists. Is, or is not, Dengism a Chinese political stance. One that wasn’t that extraordinary in the days, and still the foundation of much current policy. Did the CIA come up with the modern stance of the CCP or something or what do you want to imply.
I acknowledge the CIA exists. What I deny is it being all-powerful. The CIA is not god, it cannot achieve aphysical results. I hope that’s not controversial.
The CIA is not god, it cannot achieve aphysical results.
Yes, the CIA proved that by failing this color revolution. The populace did not fall for the CIA playbook and there was no massive civil war. Only a small riot. Keep in mind this is nothing like the Kent State massacare where the American police actually massacared peaceful unarmed protesters. These Tiannenmen rioters burned army officers alive.
These Tiannenmen rioters burned army officers alive.
…which is not the same people as were on the square. Those were Peking locals, not students, barricading the side streets so the army could not get to the square, while (other) Peking locals had previously informed the army that the people on the square weren’t counter-revolutionary insurgents but their sons and daughters, good Dengists, because the hardliners in the party had conveniently omitted that part from the marching orders. You can find lots of pictures of people handing bowls of noodles to soldiers in tanks, those are of that. The army had its orders, though, pushed through the barricades, that’s where the casualties occurred, arrived at the square, then told the protesters to GTFO or else, orders from above. The protesters chose GTFO, hence no massacre on the square. Don’t expect me to side with the hardliners giving those marching orders, they were not the ones saving the day, the Peking noodle brigade was. And I’d actually expect even lemmygrad to not side with them either because their views do not represent current CCP positions. Like, for one, private enterprises exist in China, the hardliners wanted none of that.
Also I have no idea why you’re going on about a massacre in the US right now. They’re having one at least once every fortnight, business as usual. Did you mistake me for a Yank? Whataboutism looks really silly if you don’t take proper aim.
On the one hand you have been presented video and photographic evidence that there were armed riots and the army had their tanks burned down by these so called “protesters”. There is no need to ask a Chinese person, not like you would believe them.
On the other hand, you present System Of A Down and Wikipedia which is notoriously Western biased when it comes to political subjects and straight up contradicts what we see in the images and videos.
Woe me which will I believe. The evidence of my eyes and ears or wikipedia.org?
Right? If ten thousand Chinese people came up to them to tell them they’d just say, of course, they’re brainwashed see see pee bots, else they’d uncritically believe western media
A recent mainstream example would be the Jan 6 protests in USAmerica. The protest about concerns regarding the legitamacy of the USA’s elections was maligned as domestic terrorism and a coup-attempt by some, right?
A protestor got fatally shot and killed by the state appartus.
CW: Suicide
4 police officers involved who were involved in the suppression took their own lives too. Likely due to strain they faced from the state appartus.
Whether peaceful protests are allowed is a basic litmus for any modern democracy. All these incidents show how democratic checks and balances are required to discourage the violent arm of the state.
I never said it was peaceful, but that doesn’t validate State violence.
So you’re just going to ignore reality? The fact that you can’t look it up on Chinese media? The DeepSeek comment wasn’t a bad comeback, it was the evidence you can see with your eyes, man.
When people start burning down tanks you are well past the point of a “protest”. This was a full on riot.
Tiannenmen was an American backed color revolution. America trained and funded those rioters and many of their leaders fled to America afterwards.
By the way are you aware that Tank Man did not block the tanks from going to the square, but blocked them from driving away from the square?
I was with you speaking truth about what happened in the square vs. side streets, but now you went off the rails.
The protesters were Dengists. The whole thing started when Hu Yaobang died, making people fear that anti-reformist forces within the party would get the upper hand. They were backing up one faction against the other, predictably, the hardliners wanted to crack down on them just as they wanted to get rid of the reformers. That’s why this turned ugly instead of getting resolved in the reformist way, which they were busy doing, having conferences with the protestors.
Absolutely, 110%, Chinese-internal politics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird
Oooooh typewriters. Did they also send pencils? Other things that the protestors could get themselves, or do without? That could have come from other places if the CIA didn’t supply them to their moles, to distribute? How many pencils did the protesters use that were not procured through the CIA?
The whole colour revolution thing is a KGB myth. Populations cannot be influenced like that, it’s just not how social dynamics work. It’s a power fantasy they never managed to implement for themselves, but believe the other side has, because they’re that kind of paranoid.
In any case: Yes, the students were Dengists. Is, or is not, Dengism a Chinese political stance. One that wasn’t that extraordinary in the days, and still the foundation of much current policy. Did the CIA come up with the modern stance of the CCP or something or what do you want to imply.
You are basically denying the CIA exists. To which I counter: “The CIA exists.”
I acknowledge the CIA exists. What I deny is it being all-powerful. The CIA is not god, it cannot achieve aphysical results. I hope that’s not controversial.
Yes, the CIA proved that by failing this color revolution. The populace did not fall for the CIA playbook and there was no massive civil war. Only a small riot. Keep in mind this is nothing like the Kent State massacare where the American police actually massacared peaceful unarmed protesters. These Tiannenmen rioters burned army officers alive.
…which is not the same people as were on the square. Those were Peking locals, not students, barricading the side streets so the army could not get to the square, while (other) Peking locals had previously informed the army that the people on the square weren’t counter-revolutionary insurgents but their sons and daughters, good Dengists, because the hardliners in the party had conveniently omitted that part from the marching orders. You can find lots of pictures of people handing bowls of noodles to soldiers in tanks, those are of that. The army had its orders, though, pushed through the barricades, that’s where the casualties occurred, arrived at the square, then told the protesters to GTFO or else, orders from above. The protesters chose GTFO, hence no massacre on the square. Don’t expect me to side with the hardliners giving those marching orders, they were not the ones saving the day, the Peking noodle brigade was. And I’d actually expect even lemmygrad to not side with them either because their views do not represent current CCP positions. Like, for one, private enterprises exist in China, the hardliners wanted none of that.
Also I have no idea why you’re going on about a massacre in the US right now. They’re having one at least once every fortnight, business as usual. Did you mistake me for a Yank? Whataboutism looks really silly if you don’t take proper aim.
Well I guess we’ll have to rewrite all of the wikipedia pages.
Perhaps we can invite someone from China to do so. Tell me, are the tank drivers available?
Oh, we should also have System of a Down rewrite their song - can’t believe they got it wrong, silly band
Lol, not the shitlib Holy Scripture! Surely it never gets rewritten!
On the one hand you have been presented video and photographic evidence that there were armed riots and the army had their tanks burned down by these so called “protesters”. There is no need to ask a Chinese person, not like you would believe them.
On the other hand, you present System Of A Down and Wikipedia which is notoriously Western biased when it comes to political subjects and straight up contradicts what we see in the images and videos.
Woe me which will I believe. The evidence of my eyes and ears or wikipedia.org?
Right? If ten thousand Chinese people came up to them to tell them they’d just say, of course, they’re brainwashed see see pee bots, else they’d uncritically believe western media
True
State violence should not be validated
A recent mainstream example would be the Jan 6 protests in USAmerica. The protest about concerns regarding the legitamacy of the USA’s elections was maligned as domestic terrorism and a coup-attempt by some, right?
A protestor got fatally shot and killed by the state appartus.
CW: Suicide
4 police officers involved who were involved in the suppression took their own lives too. Likely due to strain they faced from the state appartus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack
Whether peaceful protests are allowed is a basic litmus for any modern democracy. All these incidents show how democratic checks and balances are required to discourage the violent arm of the state.
Would this be an example of how it could be seen in different pov’s?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5__ESiklA1A
I do oppose state violence, but I doubt Western narratives too.