- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
VATICAN CITY, April 21 (Reuters) - Pope Francis, the first Latin American leader of the Roman Catholic Church, has died, the Vatican said in a video statement on Monday, ending an often turbulent reign marked by division and tension as he sought to overhaul the hidebound institution. He was 88, and had recently survived a serious bout of double pneumonia.
“Dear brothers and sisters, it is with profound sadness I must announce the death of our Holy Father Francis,” Cardinal Kevin Farrell announced on the Vatican’s TV channel.
“At 7:35 this morning the Bishop of Rome, Francis, returned to the house of the Father.”
Jorge Mario Bergoglio was elected pope on March 13, 2013, surprising many Church watchers who had seen the Argentine cleric, known for his concern for the poor, as an outsider.
He sought to project simplicity into the grand role and never took possession of the ornate papal apartments in the Apostolic Palace used by his predecessors, saying he preferred to live in a community setting for his “psychological health”.
He inherited a Church that was under attack over a child sex abuse scandal and torn by infighting in the Vatican bureaucracy, and was elected with a clear mandate to restore order.
But as his papacy progressed, he faced fierce criticism from conservatives, who accused him of trashing cherished traditions. He also drew the ire of progressives, who felt he should have done much more to reshape the 2,000-year-old Church.
While he struggled with internal dissent, Francis became a global superstar, drawing huge crowds on his many foreign travels as he tirelessly promoted interfaith dialogue and peace, taking the side of the marginalised, such as migrants.
Unique in modern times, there were two men wearing white in the Vatican for much of Francis’ rule, with his predecessor Benedict opting to continue to live in the Holy See after his shock resignation in 2013 had opened the way for a new pontiff.
Benedict, a hero of the conservative cause, died in December 2022, finally leaving Francis alone on the papal stage.
Francis appointed nearly 80% of the cardinal electors who will choose the next pope correct as of February 2025, increasing the possibility that his successor will continue his progressive policies, despite the strong pushback from traditionalists.
[Edited for clarity and to reduce aggressiveness. I did mess up the original comment (and I apologize), so I should tolerate angry replies, even replies misrepresenting what I said.]
That was a misrepresentation of what I wrote. The genocide cheerleading accusation is for drooling lunatic New Atheists (like Sam Harris), not leftists. I explicitly said that New Atheists are right-wingers, not leftists.
I explicitly said that the “atheist elites” narrative is right-wing disinformation.
I am talking about how anti-religious lashing out is easy fodder for right wing propaganda.
No you are saying that mocking the dead pope is like being a new atheist who cheerlead wars in the middle east. It is not obscurantism to call you out on what you said and what is meant by it. You are comparing people saying “Good riddance pedophile” about a guy who knowingly sanctioned the cover up of sex crimes against minors and who called queers a greats moral evil to the cheering on of genocide. And that IS your point, that IS the point of comparing this to new atheism. That there is any kind of equivalence between these forms of rhetoric.
[Edited to reduce aggressiveness. I did mess up the original comment (and I apologize), so I should tolerate angry replies, even replies misrepresenting what I said.]
I explicitly said:
I started the sentence with “One of the strongest right-wing disinformation” (my emphasis).
As for new atheism, I said:
I was contrasting the puerile antisocial behavior of new atheism (lashing out at religion for fun) with the responsible attitude of communists who want to raise class consciousness and overthrow capitalism [and therefore theocracy].
I did read the part where you compared the mocking of a dead pope to the ideology and actions of new atheists, and that is what I am taking a shot at.
[Edited for clarity and to reduce aggressiveness. I did mess up the original comment (and I apologize), so I should tolerate angry replies, even replies misrepresenting what I said.]
I meant to contrast the rhetoric of two different camps (leftists vs New Atheists), to highlight counterproductive rhetoric. I mentioned chearleading for war crimes to emphasize that New Atheists are right wing fanatics who lash out at religion possibly as a cover, so they do not appear to be right wing fanatics in their liberal social circle. And that when we do anything remotely similar to New Atheism, we should at least suspect it is wrong. You read it as conflating the gravity of lashing out at religion (part of what New Atheists do) and the gravity of cheerleading for massive war crimes, which is another part of New Atheism. I apologize for the confusion and offense.
It is because many years ago, when I still hang out in religious Internet forums, it was new atheists who came to attack us day and night. When I converted to the left, I saw far more respect for religion. Leftists can actually discern between “theocrat” and “religious person”. Until I saw this thread. This thread is an outlier. This is why I mentioned New Atheism, as an analogy, because puerile lashing out at religion (antagonizing half of our potential comrades) is typical behavior of New Atheists. Except that New Atheists don’t care about the working class, so they are not being counterproductive, just antisocial. This thread is being counterproductive.
You will get no sympathy from anyone here for the “attacks” you received on christian forums 20 years ago. As far as I can tell no ine here is mocking the average catholic, they are electing not to respect the pope. The arch theocrat. The literal type specimen of the term.
I never asked for sympathy for New Atheist attacks on me. I asked people to reply to what I actually said.
Pretty sure the pope is a really clear example of a theocrat