I have a side gig helping old people with technology and my last job was helping a guy set up his new computer.

His old computer ended up in a boot loop so he bought a new one.

And this is an older guy, so he accesses his emails on his computer and his phone is just for making phone calls.

You need to have a Microsoft account to use Windows 11, and this guy was stuck at the login step for his new computer. He’d been without a computer for a week so he really wanted someone to help him out.

He had tried to login to his Microsoft account too many times, so Microsoft sent him an email to verify it was him. But he didn’t have a computer to access his emails on. Microsoft is making some big assumptions about the number of devices people have and their availability when setting up a new computer.

Buying a new computer is a quite expensive and not very exciting endeavor for most people, so they’re only going to do it when they really need to. Which for this guy is when Windows 10 stopped working on his old computer.

So people could be down a device when they go to set up their new Windows 11 PC.

It frustrates me because it adds an extra layer of shit people need to deal with, and it means you can’t use a perfectly good computer because Microsoft wants to populate your device details against your contact record in their CRM.

Fortunately this guy has all his passwords written down, and I was able to access his emails from his phone to get the Microsoft code. As a quick aside, I also had to deal with a bit of authentication hell, needing to receive an SMS from his email provider to access his inbox to get the code Microsoft had sent. I was trying to explain to him what each code was for, so I can see how it would be easy for someone to get lost in these side quests of codes when you’re trying to do one specific thing.

If I had a USB drive with Mint on it, I almost would have just switched him over. He wasn’t a power user from his own admission so he would barely notice the difference, aside from the lack of popups and extortion Microsoft does to its users.

It made me think of how different the setup process was when I installed Bazzite on an old work laptop. I was creating the password for the root user, Bazzite recommended 8 characters for the password but I put in the regular 4 digit PIN I use for some things.

Bazzite comes up with a notice saying something like ‘We recommend a password of 8 characters. Your password is less than recommended, so you’ll have to press ENTER twice to confirm’.

Bazzite knows what a good minimum length password is, but also acknowledges it’s your computer and you can use it how you want.

I know this isn’t a surprise to anyone here, but it pisses me off how user hostile Microsoft is. Requiring an account feels like marketing or the board getting in on the software design process. Windows has muscled itself into being the go-to OS for consumer electronics. More consideration needs to be made for that 5% of users that don’t have a computer, phone, and tablet all talking to each other. Especially when you expect less tech savvy people to use your shitty software because you’ve done so much to block any competition.

Oh, and I find it galling you hand over your contact details to Microsoft for a paid OS and it still doesn’t come with office software. Open Word on a fresh install of 11 and you’re met with a pop-up to buy a subscription to Office 365. One of the first things I did for this guy was install Libreoffice and SumatraPDF, setting both of them as defaults.

Sometimes the big software vendors are the biggest ads for their FOSS alternatives.

    • fart [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      7 days ago

      A ton of websites (not like, google, business-only sites) at my work are like this, it’s all set up to a random managers cell phone so if he’s not there (like on the weekend) i gotta text him for authentication codes. Why would these dumbass companies think that’s a good idea

    • 2FA is violence against the poor/non-stable. Having half a dozen Facebook accounts is a true to life stereotype of homeless kids, because we’re often careless and lose the ability to log in once we lose our phones.

      • Monstertruckenjoyer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        7 days ago

        You also lose control (what little you had) over that information if you can’t access the account. So post something stupid 10 years ago? If you lost that phone bad luck, it’s permanent.

        I lost a shit ton of clients when I was scraping by freelancing in my early 20s because 2fa got forced onto my Gmail. Had no way of getting that information back. It’s a huge hurdle if you’re broke.

  • ClimateStalin [they/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    7 days ago

    My wife’s PC just suddenly updated to Windows 11 all on its own one day without approval, and trying to rollback made it blue screen a bunch of times. Eventually I got it to go back, but her computer is still having tons of problems now presumably related to the update process

  • Soot [none/use name]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    edit-2
    7 days ago

    You can setup Windows 11 without a Microsoft account by hacking it so you can open command prompt and sneak past the screen.

    I’m a power user and it took me ten minutes of googling, pressing random shortcuts and typing in long-ass scary commands. I’m assuming requiring an account is illegal here in the EU, but oh well.

  • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    7 days ago

    linux works well for old people who just want to check their emails actually.

    • tombruzzo [none/use name]@hexbear.netOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      6 days ago

      I think it’s perfect for them. Put their preferred web browser and Thunderbird on and they’re good to go.

      Another issue I’ve found is old people struggle to use Windows Explorer for navigating their files. All of the Linux file explorer programs are so much nicer and easier to use.

      These are all reasons why I want to put together a campaign on switching to Linux and getting involved in the End of 10 campaign.

  • MizuTama [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    7 days ago

    You can do a local user by opening up command line during setup and typing:

    start ms-cxh:localonly

    The keys for opening command line is usually shift+f10 or shift+fn+f10 depending on fn settings on the device.

    Unironically though doing this for users at work as the straw for me finally swapping to Linux on my own machine.

    • tombruzzo [none/use name]@hexbear.netOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      6 days ago

      This is good to know too. I wouldn’t want to scare people by entering too many command line commands on their computer but something simple that makes things easier for them is worth it.

  • mrfugu [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    7 days ago

    my partner recently got an older laptop from his job they were getting rid of and I helped him wipe it and re-set up windows 11. With a bit of determination I was able to set up windows by making a new microsoft account without providing any other email address or phone number.

    So that’s what I’ll be doing for every windows install for the foreseeable future

  • TheModerateTankie [any]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    26
    ·
    7 days ago

    There are ways around the account requirement, or there used to be a few months ago. I bypassed it on a new laptop. But even after all that they show ads everywhere and it requires hours of tweaks just to get the OS to not blatantly spy on you and spam you with ads or put all your files in onedrive. Win11 is the worst computer experience I’ve ever had. They put copilot in the fucking notepad app.

    • alexei_1917 [any]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      7 days ago

      This kind of shit is absolutely why I hate Windows. I mean, I hate technology in general. Every new advancement in technology these days comes with zero benefits to my life and a lot of downsides. I hate modern technology. Despite the fact that I am absolutely not old enough to be saying this kind of shit yet. But, well, my mum really hates new technology that does nothing but make life more complicated, and I have to say, on pretty much everything in life besides politics, I do tend to agree with her! (And on politics, it’s mostly a terminology thing. She has no love for Soviet symbolism or the terminology a lot of MLs use, but the true underlying ideals of socialism are very much things she likes. She’s the most “unaware communist” neoliberal I’ve ever met.) Yeah, technology tends to suck a lot more than it actually makes life easier. I blame capitalism.

  • ilovepiracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    25
    ·
    edit-2
    7 days ago

    Agreed, MS’s aggressive market capture is horrible to work with. Sucks that it’s the consumer standard AND the industry standard. So much bullshit to sift through when configuring the computers for a work environment.

    Anyways, just a heads up for future installs; you can bypass the sign-in screen during the Windows install and create a local account. It’s annoying to do, convoluted by design. But still not nearly as annoying as signing in to a Microsoft account.

    Edit: additionally if you are going to use Windows, I would suggest one of the LTSC builds, removes most of the bloat and gets at least 10 years of support.

  • IHave69XiBucks@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    7 days ago

    I have yet to use windows 11 and i am hoping i manage to keep it that way forever. Even my grandmother is using mint and she cant tell the difference.

    • LeZero [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      7 days ago

      I have to use it at work and boy am I glad I switched from Windows 10 to Fedora

      And I get the less bad experience since we use the Entreprise version, can’t imagine how it gets with the retail ones

    • tombruzzo [none/use name]@hexbear.netOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      6 days ago

      These older people I work with could switch to Mint and the only differences would be no annoying pop-ups and updates. It would honestly free them up from so much of the pain of using a computer these days

  • TankieTanuki [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    edit-2
    7 days ago

    this is an older guy, so he accesses his emails on his computer and his phone is just for making phone calls.

    Ah, fuck. I’m old. chomsky-yes-honey


    Edit: I ran into the same account creation problem when I had to use Windows for school. Someone on here told me that you can avoid the Microsoft account step by installing Windows 11 without network access.

    • tombruzzo [none/use name]@hexbear.netOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      6 days ago

      I’ll keep that in mind about the network access if I need to do it again. This guy bought one of those all in one computers, old people seem to love them, and had already plugged it into the ethernet. Maybe if it was a laptop he wouldn’t have gotten that far.

      And I think it’s good to keep that distinction between devices. I don’t quite do that, but out of habit I go in and turn off notifications for almost every app so I can use my phone how I want