Israel was taken by surprise by the most ambitious operation Hamas has ever launched from Gaza.

The scale of what’s been happening is unprecedented. Hamas breached the wire that separates Gaza from Israel in multiple places in the most serious cross-border attack Israel has faced in more than a generation.

It came a day after the 50th anniversary of the surprise attack by Egypt and Syria in 1973 that started a major Middle East war. The significance of the date will not have been lost on the Hamas leadership.

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says his country is at war and will exact a heavy price from its enemies.

Videos and photos of dead Israelis, civilians as well as soldiers, are all over social media.

  • clanginator@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    But if I went to Palestine in the body I currently inhabit, I’d be raped and stoned in the streets for the way I dress.

    I obviously don’t know how you dress, but could you provide a source saying that someone has (at least somewhat recently) been stoned to death in Palestine for the way they dress?

    I tried researching this myself because it sounded like some bigotry based on absolutely nothing, and I found nothing. I did find several articles about a Palestinian woman who was stoned by Israelis, and obviously Palestine has lots of issues related to religion, but saying you’d be “stone for what you’re wearing” is a pretty bold claim to make

    I’ve seen videos of children of both cultures calmly telling tourists they should die, that god will kill them, that the children themselves would kill them if they could.

    Okay, so you hate religion, got it. I’m not big on religion myself, especially when religion is entwined with govt, but that doesn’t mean I go around being a centrist in a conflict which has a clear aggressor and a clear overall victim. Even tho both do suffer from the situation, Palestine is absolutely the victim here.

    If their cultures grow and succeed they wont care that you helped, they’ll use their power to subjugate you to their god all the same.

    How about - since that’s complete conjecture and based on nothing but your personal biases and distate for religion, we cross that bridge when we get there and currently worry about the apartheid state that’s carried out much of stages 0-8 of genocide against the Palestinian people.

    • 🐱TheCat@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      I wear clothes that show my arms and legs below the knee, and I like to be able to go outside at night. Audacious I know, for me to want the same freedoms as men. Do you need sources for the fact that I can’t do this in Palestine? Do you need sources for the fact that when Palestine started to see more beach tourism, HAMAS swooped in to crackdown on women on the beach?

      Im not silly enough to think that if these abrahamic religions spread that I will be spared.

      You’re right. Palestine are victims now. If Israel stopped being funded by the west, Israel would be the victims next. You disagree?

      • clanginator@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        So you don’t care about any other human rights, only rights for women, right? So if a country doesn’t have a perfect gender equality track record, I can’t be upset at injustices happening to Palestinian people because some Palestinians are religious extremists.

        What does that remind me of? Oh yeah, blatant racism.

        Still waiting on a source that says people have been stoned to death for dressing inappropriately in Palestine. You completely ignored that.

        I have no doubt there is religious extremism and I understand that freedoms for women and overall freedom in Palestine are far from perfect. But a large reason religious extremist groups in Palestine have as much power as they do is thanks to Israel’s suppression causing more extremism, so if you ACTUALLY care about women’s rights in Palestine, you’d be advocating for Israel to end their oppression.

        Im not silly enough to think that if these abrahamic relgions spread that I will be spared.

        But you are silly enough to think that they’re gonna spread and affect you. Right now, they don’t. RIGHT NOW, the Israeli government is continuing it’s apartheid state, oppressing indigenous people.

        And because you can’t be assed to look anything up, I’ll copy-paste for you:

        Palestinian women’s struggle for gender equality and women’s rights is restricted by two main interrelated forces: the Israeli occupation, and internal patriarchal control. Women activists in Palestine are fighting simultaneously on two fronts for political (national) and social (gender) liberation. They remain sceptical of a feminist agenda that primarily focuses on individual and social gender empowerment and instead insist that gender inequality in their context stems not only from patriarchal oppression, but from poverty, economic dependency, continued political violence, insecurity and instability caused by Israeli occupation, siege and settler-colonial policies. Israeli occupation policies of territorial (and political) fragmentation, spatial separation and mobility restrictions have systematically dispossessed, occupied and destroyed Palestinian living spaces, breaking up Palestinian territory into several unconnected and isolated cantons. Such policies of spatial control have a severe damaging impact on Palestinian economy (Roy, 2004), society, family and kinship organisation (Johnson, 2006), but also on women’s activism. Women are not only divided geographically (between - and within - the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem and the Diaspora), but, more importantly, their contexts and predicaments are widely varying: refugees, West Bank and Gaza ‘citizens’, East Jerusalemites and Palestinians with Israeli citizenship all have different access to rights. This wide variation and fragmentation complicates women activists’ efforts to organise a united agenda. While the specificities of refugees and ‘citizens’ in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem will be drawn out, this note does not cover Palestinian women’s rights and issues of gender equality inside Israel or the Diaspora. Women’s rights in Palestine thus cannot be dealt with in isolation; the impact that the occupation and political conflict have on women’s legal, social, cultural, educational, economic and political status is crucial when looking for possible strategies to empower women. This is not to say that patriarchal structures and cultures are not a major concern for Palestinian women’s activists. To the contrary, it highlights that women’s empowerment in the Palestinian context and their struggle for equal rights is closely linked to their political and economic empowerment which can only be achieved by ending the Israeli occupation.

        • 🐱TheCat@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Bro saying Hamas doesn’t have a ‘perfect track record’ is the biggest understatement. They push towards fundamentalism every chance they get and rose to power through violence.

          • clanginator@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Palestine≠Hamas.

            Palestine is a country/people, Hamas is an extremist religious group that controls a portion of Palestinian territory right now.

            Funny how you COMPLETELY IGNORED the source I shared which discussed exactly how that circumstance affects women’s rights. And chose not to speak at all about the ongoing struggle for gender equality or equality for Palestinians. But instead chose to focus on your hatred for an extremist militant organization while equivocating that as representing an entire people who cannot possibly be represented by them due to the very nature of the situation.

            Almost like, in all your comments, you were never actually concerned about women’s rights, but were just looking to excuse your bigotry.

            • 🐱TheCat@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              Your source mentions internal patriarchal control on the same level as the Israeli occupation. Almost like you just ignore evidence that yea, Sunni Muslim populations who welcome Shar’ia law don’t provide good lives for women by definition.

              You also ignored my question about what Hamas would do to Israel if they had more weapons / power.

              You’re the one confusing Palestine and Hamas. Israel is attacking the Gaza strip which is run by Hamas.

              • clanginator@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Almost like you just ignore evidence that yea, Sunni Muslim populations who welcome Shar’ia law don’t provide good lives for women by definition.

                Where in any of my comments did I ignore that? You’re the one ignoring oppression of women by being dismissive of the oppression of Palestinians.

                You understand how intersectional feminism works, right? You understand how extremist groups like Hamas have substantially more power and support because of the oppression of the Palestinian people, right? Oh no, you don’t. You’re totally uneducated on the situation there, and shouldn’t be speaking on it until you take the time to read a damn book.

                You also ignored my question about what Hamas would do to Israel if they had more weapons / power.

                Because it’s an idiotic question. The reason Hamas exists at all is Israeli oppression and attempted genocide of Palestinians, the reason Hamas became a terrorist group attacking civilian targets is Israeli oppression. Hamas doesn’t exist without absolutely disproportionate Israeli violence. Israel DOES have the power, and IS suppressing. “What if” Hamas was as powerful as Israel is an absolutely idiotic question to pose that does nothing to help discussion, nothing to educate, IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE CONVERSATION and demonstrates an utter lack of education on the nature/origins of the conflict. Therefore it’s a stupid fucking question that didn’t deserve an answer, but because you’re so fucking dense, there.

                You’re the one confusing Palestine and Hamas. Israel is attacking the Gaza strip which is run by Hamas.

                Wow congratulations you know something! Yes Gaza is run by Hamas. Doesn’t mean that everyone living there is Hamas, headass. Most people are just Palestinians. Thats like saying "you’re confusing Jews and Israel, the nation of Israeli is an extremist government. Like yeah no shit.

                  • clanginator@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Wow look at that you said something that wasn’t totally braindead, and actually managed to not stereotype all Palestinians as religious extremist terrorists! Great job!

                    Now focus your energy on the oppressor instead of blaming Israel and Hamas equally, and maybe read a book on the situation before u keep talking about it.