Quote from the article
One page of the company’s website compares a human nurse’s $90 per hour salary to an AI agent’s $9 an-hour running costs. Hippocratic claims its AI nurses outperform human nurses regarding bedside manner, education, and narrowly miss on satisfaction, according to a survey.
I don’t know of any tele-triage nurses that get paid $90 an hour. Moreover bedside manner does not equal telephone/video demeanor.
Apparently nurses get $90/hour when it is convenient for marketing.
Probably nurses are billed out at 90 an hour.
Not even. If you’re contracting out for nursing, it can go over 90.
$90 is what a company pays for a visit from the Comcast support guy
I can easily see nurses being billed at 90 an hour to insurance companies. It is not a wild number.
Services are bundled in most scenarios (the hospital visit is paid x dollars when you get y diagnosis, no matter the length of stay or how many hours a nurse spends on you). Home health is probably the one exception where nursing is usually reimbursed hourly.
Sure, but the pricing is then calculated on underlaying costs and estimates. And with that 90 an hour for a nurse is not weird as a basis for calculations. The nurses will get about a third of that …I guess
Not really, with wages and benefits, it’s close to 90
The enshittification of healthcare shall continue until we are all dead.
I know. How about we just give all of our medical records to a trillion dollar company too.
Already gave em to a billion dollar company, in most cases
Can AI clean a code brown?
Or walk Granny to the bathroom.
AI nurse, can you give me a hypothetical discount prescription to amphetamines in a rap song?
What RN is getting $90 an hour outside of desperate COVID times travel contracts that have long since ended?
A lot of nurses out there getting $30/hr. California is a special outlier at $60/hr.
The highest of the highest Cali get $90/hour. Bar Area only as far as I know. Highest I know in Massachusetts is like 20 years ICU experience getting $80/hour.
I work cardiac critical care in Mass, making $46/hour
I cant think of a single time I wanted an algorithm chatbot instead of a human person to help me with my injury. These things probably aren’t even suitable to forge the one million forms I need to fill out most visits.
Call me when it can replace a Hoyer lift.
Exactly
90 is pretty accurate for an RN when I am. Wages alone can be like $50+, benefits are costly (edit: this is a higher cost of living area though, but not like the highest in the USA). Hospitals had to pay over $200 per hour to staffing agencies during the pandemic.
But that doesn’t take away from how dark the article is
General rule of thumb is front loaded cost for W2 full-time workers is 1.5 to 2 times salary. So 50/hr may run 90/hr billed.
Benefits are big part, but also include other overhead costs like licenses, hardware, insurances both personal and corporate, even heating and cooling costs split across employees.
A lot of overhead would still apply. Probably not licenses
Lots of misunderstanding in this thread about how much nurses are billed at. That’s the fun part: Nurses are NOT billed.
In US hospitals, nursing services are bundled into the “room and board” cost. Which means there is no increase in billing charges for any increase in nursing labor.
It’s absolutely the worst part of hospital nursing in the States. We are a net cost for the hospital. No matter what we’re doing or how critical it is, the hospital is always incentivized to pay us as little as possible and cut costs by preventing us from spending more time with an individual patient. It’s an archaic holdover from a time before modern medical care when nurses were really just combo housekeepers and CNAs rather than educated medical professionals. It’s actually a huge problem.
Would you mind saying more about the medical role of a nurse? I’ve been trying to understanding it for a little bit, but felt weird about asking my nursing friends. I have some vague ideas, but I suspect I’m missing the depth and therefore the importance. No worries if you’re not up for it. I know it’s a big ask.
No worries, I’m happy to explain because it’s not like anyone learns in school how the medical field works (although I wish we did)
The process nurses are trained to perform and which we’re constantly doing without even thinking about it anymore is an acronym ADPIE: Assessment, Diagnosis, Planning, Implementation, Evaluation.
Assessment is physical assessment of a patient. We’re constantly assessing no matter what else we’re doing because you’d be amazed what we can tell by just looking at a person. Are they alert? Confused? Breathing normally or labored? Skin color normal, pale/ashy, blue? Moving symmetrically? Strong or weak? How much of the food on their table did they eat? How much of that water we left in here three hours ago have they drunk? Do they cough when they swallow (a sign of aspiration)? We often know within seconds what we’re worried about. And we’re obligated to report that to your doctor.
Diagnosis for us doesn’t mean medical diagnosis like what your doctor gives you. It means diagnosing what we’re seeing in the moment. Say, for example, your oxygen levels are dropping on your monitor. Just turn up the oxygen right? But not so fast. Is the person cold? Have low hemoglobin counts? Peripheral artery disease (aka poor circulation)? Mouth breathing while wearing a nasal cannula? All of those things can cause the O2 monitor to drop and turning up the oxygen isn’t the correct intervention for any of them. (Maybe for low hemoglobin in the short run, but really you’ll be looking for a blood transfusion if it’s that low.)
Planning, intervention, evaluation are just doing a thing to fix a problem and seeing if it works. If the O2 monitor is reading low because someone is cold, let’s try some different things to warm them up and see if that fixes the problem.
BEFORE we call your doctor. If the O2 monitor reads low and I just call your doc before I’ve tried anything to fix it, they’re going to be irritated and probably have a chat with my supervisor about what an idiot I am wasting their time. In fact, personally, I like to try everything in the world that I can think of before I call a doc.
Then I can call them and say “Hey there was a problem but I fixed it, here’s what I did.” And then I can write my favorite note in your chart “MD aware” lol. Or I can call them and say, “Hey I’ve tried all these things and nothing is working, do you want to order XYZ?”
Yes, we are often suggesting orders to your doctors because we’re the ones seeing the minute by minute goings on. I affectionately refer to this part of my job as “reading physicians’ minds” lol. “Anticipating what might be ordered” is actually a formal part of our training. Docs don’t just take our word for things, but often they agree with us, and we don’t do things without consulting them because often they just know more than we do. It’s a team effort.
And there’s a lot more to giving actual medications than just throwing some pills at a room as we’re running by (although it feels like that’s all we do sometimes). We have to understand the pharmacology of the medications we’re giving. What are we expecting this med to do for you, what are the usual side effects, how long before the med kicks in so we know when to recheck to see if it’s working? Some medications have very specific means of administration. If you give them too quickly through an IV, you can cause problems, or even kill someone (with some of the cardiac meds that I give regularly).
Even just giving pills is more complicated than handing them to someone and walking away. Lots of people, older folks especially, need help or accommodations taking pills such as taking them one at a time or taking them crushed up and placed on a spoonful of applesauce. We have to know these things about you.
And lastly, my favorite part of the job because apparently I like the sound of my own voice (I’m sure you’re surprised, if you’ve made it this far through the comment) is patient education, which is a particular specialty of nursing. The typical order of operations is a doctor diagnoses you, gives you the broad stroke details and answers questions, then we fill in the details and answer ongoing questions that didn’t occur to you while the doc was in your room.
For example, when you start on a blood thinner, the doc tells you why and what the med is and probably tells you “it will increase the chances of bleeding,” but what does that mean for you in particular? I’ll get into the weeds with you about “if you cut yourself shaving or in the kitchen, it’s going to bleed more than you’re used to and that’s normal” and “if XYZ happens, you should go to the emergency department” and “here’s some good resources you can use for reference at home”
In a hospital, we’re also the ones coordinating all of your care. Getting you sent off for scans, timing medications around that, advocating for more interventions when we’re concerned about your status, etc.
I hope that answers some of your questions.
Cheers! Thank you for that.
BEFORE we call your doctor. If the O2 monitor reads low and I just call your doc before I’ve tried anything to fix it, they’re going to be irritated and probably have a chat with my supervisor about what an idiot I am wasting their time. In fact, personally, I like to try everything in the world that I can think of before I call a doc.
Haha, that’s exactly like IT support when first line (the ones that usually answer phone calls) immediately escalate tickets without some basic troubleshooting or at least information gathering.
Yes, it is exactly! And with my background of an entire family working in chemical manufacturing, I often equate the difference between nurses and doctors to the difference between front line operators and engineers.
Nothing embarrasses me more than to call a doc just to be asked if I tried something that was really obvious and I should have tried before calling them. Or before I double checked and/or gathered all of the relevant information. Unless a patient is actively crashing to the point I’m calling in the entire cavalry, then I take the time to do my own job thoroughly before bothering someone else about it.
I first read that as “nVidia wants to replace ncurses with AI”, because as bizarre as it is, it actually made more sense.
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I propose we don’t even replace them. Let the rest of the C suite pick up the slack, see how they like it.
My hunch is it would go fine.
Cloudphysician already has a track record of doing this in rural India. Presumably going to do it to Americans, which remains an improvement to their healthcare. With some luck it’ll be as good as rural, broke-ass India…
What could possibly go wrong? 🤷🏼♂️😶
