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Cake day: March 18th, 2026
  • garbage_world@lemmy.worldtoOpen Source@lemmy.ml•'Ethical and Moral Considerations in Proprietary Software Usage' by Bradley M. Kühn
    22·
    23 hours ago

    My comments are written in context of your entire message

    Using community-vetted software doesn’t have any security or privacy benefits over proprietary. Neither will proprietary software arbitrarily be able to remove features, lock out certain users or raise prices dramatically.

    It does. The fact something is better for me, doesn’t make it morally superior.

    Would you rather buy vetted cruelty-free foods or not?

    I’d rather buy cruelty-free foods

    There’s surely no benefits in doing so.

    Benefit and morality are separate things. Some may percive benefit from doing moral things, and some may not.

    What about clothing? Would you rather buy a shirt that has some guarantee of not using underpaid or child labor? What about energy? Would you rather your electricity comes from a local coal plant poisoning you and others with its toxic fumes, or from a solar+hydro mix? What about furniture? Woukd you rather get an item made from recycled materials and with well-paid labour, made locally and to high quality or get the not-so-cheap alternative from IKEA?

    Morality is subjective. All those things can be moral and immoral at the same time. You have to decouple concepts of morality and percived benefit from each other.

    All the options above are morally superior. And so is FOSS software.

    According to you, if you think morality is objective, you might want to create a religion.

    1. sometimes, these pros from above don’t even come at a higher price. Hell, oftentimes they’re cheaper (for example, storebrand is vastly more moral than Nestle and it’s cheaper).

    Okay, and? What does it have to do with perciving morality of using FOSS software?

    1. There’s a positive-feedback loop regarding standards.

    I agree

    First standards don’t exist formally and any “standard” (quality or otherwise) is pure coincidence. Pay is high because the market said so. Quality is high because machines are good enough. Privacy of our maiking list is high because our director chose to use a free (FOSS) local app instead of a paid cloud service.

    I agree.

    Small nitpick, unrelated to the topic: Selfhosted, FOSS solutions aren’t necessarily more private than cloud services, unless you’re the one hosting them and not your employer. They can install any malicious program on the server and have access to all the data, which is impossible on some cloud platforms.

    Then ad-hoc (informal) standards form. Companies voluntarily do things in order to stay competitive. For example most every site uses hashing and salting, meaning your passwords are pretty safe. Then real standards form. Still voluntary, but formal. They’re still voluntary, but you can’t half-ass things anymore abd say you did them. You’ve gotta meet real demand. Then these standards get made a requirement by the legislature, so Nestle actually has to do some ethics now. This exact same progression is present in multiple otherwise disjunct domains. Labor rights, pollution, quality standards. And yes, software freedom is one of them.

    Okay, I can agree.

    But what even is software freedom? It’s the ability to vett code. The ability to switch providers. The ability to play a game after servers shut down. The ability to export data. The ability to not pay an hourly rate of $15 for your dial-up use. Interoperability. And a lot of other things. Free as in freedom is much more than gratis (free as in no need for money). Free software is the one that pushes this feedback loop forward the most. And that’s why it’s a moral imperative. Ironically, it’s free software that often times creates competition (and therefore lowers the price of) proprietary software. It sets quality standards. Proprietary can’t be that worse than free - people’d find out soon enough. It acts as competition (albeit oftebtimes unequal). It expands accessibility by giving a gratis alterbative. It drives change. Much more so than proprietary bullshit.

    Making everyone use better software doesn’t have be morally superior. But that’s a convincing argument.

    Using FOSS software isn’t easy in this day and age. But without it, using proprietary software would be way, way harder than the FOSS from decades ago. No Internet/WorldWideWeb. No networking. No encryption.

    I don’t really understand what you meant. Was using FOSS harder back then or what? (I can absolutely agree with that thesis, but I don’t know what you meant)

    Most of the infrastructure is FOSS. It’s too expensive to make well even for the big players - some 25% of Windows (as in the bloated mess) is made up of free software. 90% of Edge is.

    Okay, I use neither of those

    You’re using free software even if you’re not trying to much more than you realize.

    I understand this wasn’t said to me, but to the general public, but I decided to see what proprietary software I still use:

    • Github (Free actions, if they change that policy or any FOSS code hosting offers free unlimited CI, I’m immediately switching back)
    • Android (No, android is not open source, AOSP is)
    • Games (Pirated, but source is still closed)
    • Youtube backend
    • Websites

    Firmware doesn’t count.

    Okay, you somehow convinced me, I still think that using FOSS is no better (morally) than proprietary software, and that using proprietary software is just stupid when alternatives exist.