I’m pretty sure something like that has in fact been tried before. I can’t remember the details, but we had some peer to peer platforms and other forums trying to establish full free speech with no censorship. And turns out they’re quickly crowded by trolls, nazis and generally angry and hateful people who feel they’re censored and they’re looking for people who side with then online. And then we have things like 4chan or 8chan. Or platforms who claim to be free speech, but they’re just far-right. Like Gab, Parler and so on.

I’m not entirely sure what you’re looking for. If you want something that’s not an echo chamber and meaningful conversations, you’re looking at heavy content moderation, and enforcing those rules. If you don’t want hate, you need to crack down on it.

So I don’t see how that’s substantially different from what we do here. But I didn’t really understand what you have in mind and what kind of tech you’re planning to use. I wish you good luck though. Meaningful conversations would be great.

Concerning the IQ: App development and regular programming aren’t that hard. It needs some time and dedication, and willingness to learn how all these things work and tie together, but I think everyone with an average IQ could do it. It’s specific domains where you need a high IQ, like writing advanced signal processing algorithms. Or write very efficient algorithms or do detailed security audits. But App development is just moderately complex, you can get away with basic math… So I’d say it’s doable. Still needs quite some time and effort though. At least several weeks to months. And the Kotlin book I have has like 800 pages filled with information, and that just takes some time to work through. None of it is magic, though. You do one chapter at a time.

Vibe coding is overrated IMO. There are applications and clients out there for whom it’s fine if you just do a piss-poor job and throw something together, and it somehow works enough. For a lot of things it’s not advanced enough, yet.

Oh wow. 🥹 My idea: Follow the instructions in the green box.

I’m still mad at them for cancelling the device trees and stuff to support custom ROMs.

I think the main issue isn’t that work is needed, but the abysmal working conditions and the harm to people and exploitation involved due to the nature of it. There has been some bigger media attention a while back:

• https://time.com/6247678/openai-chatgpt-kenya-workers/
• https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-africa-66514287

“Ghost work” like labeling faces or streets is very much alright compared to that.

Yeah. I wouldn’t be here, complaining, if there was. Honestly I don’t have a lot of confidence in US politics right now. They’re bothered with different things right now. And the USA aren’t even known to regulate big companies. So… My prediction isn’t great. Maybe the rest of the world can do at least something. But that’s going to be difficult. But we need to continue with this (in my opinion). Even if it’s hard and odds are against us. I still we have some obligation to push for a good future.

To be fair, web application firewalls and log analyzers are a thing. No one really needs specifically Cloudflare to do it, and the downsides that come with it. It’s just that it is very convenient.

Hmmh. I mean that’s more a question for the scientists to come up with effective technology. I heard we have some robust watermarking solutions. And with some content types it’s hard to remove and it’ll leave telltale signs if you try to remove it or slap something over it. I’m not an expert though. Nothing is 100%. And I’ve read some questions by people who tried to upload AI voice audiobooks to Spotify. And seems they have some half-way effective system in place. You need some verification from Elevenlabs so no one can steal David Attenborough’s or Scarled Johansson’s voice. And seems that actually works and is almost impossible to circumvent. Even for the people with sufficient criminal energy.

Ultimately I think it’s two seperate things, coming up with the law, and coming up with effective tech to do it. But things like the Scarlett Johansson voice tells me it’s possible to almost entirely eradicate things from the big platforms, if we force them to do it.

And we have some other examples like the face-swaps and Emma Watson or other famous people nudes, which really have toned down due to cracking down on it. They’re still there, but we’ve reduced it substancially.

I don’t think there is a way to achieve 100%. Almost everything can be circumvented somehow if you have enough resources to do it. And we can’t turn back time, so the AI models from today are out there, It’s just not a realistic possibility to reverse their existence. I mean sure we can wish for it. But I think in practice, we need to find ways to deal with what it is… It’s a valid thing to discuss. But if you’re like me and advocate for law to address it… That’s almost always going to be limited to being reactive, to react to the current situation, and ignore things that aren’t realistic.

Yeah, My reasoning is more, like 80% of the AI companies and services are from the USA. If they passed a law, that’d have you covered for the biggest chunk of it. Plus Europe has similar ideas and the Chinese have already done it. Sure, theoretically we could have companies someplace else, but that’s few and far between. You’d catch most of it and that’s a good start.

And my other thought process is: People use AI specifically to do things in a low-effort way. Because they don’t want to put in a lot of work. They’re unlikely to be willing to jump through several hoops. That’s why they used AI in the first place. We can catch the majority of them just by adding a small hurdle. And that’s again a large chunk of the AI use cases we can catch. And it all adds up.

But yes, there are a few people with different motives. They’ll use AI but not because it’s a low effort way to do something, but they have enough energy to buy a graphics card for $1,000, go through the tedious process of removing watermarking (which isn’t easy if done right)… And I don’t have a good solution for those.

Well, for a starter you could activate a filter and it’d all vanish from your browser. Pupils couldn’t cheat any more in homework assignments, since the watermarking would immediately flag the homework as generated by AI. And you’d have a clear indication in Apple music or even a button to suppress it. Also some of the fabricated or doctored images would have a label next to them, distinguishing them from real photos, for example in news articles or blog posts that’d be helpful.

Of course with enough time and effort, some people will be able to circumvent it. But it’ll alleviate some of the pain. And make it way harder for them to pull this off. And cover most of it, since most of it is low effort.

I think that’s a good example for “Perfect is the enemy of good.” You want to go 100%. I offered a solution that’d get us at least somewhere. But compromising to stay at 0% would be the worst option. I’d still do it, because it’s so easy to do. And then see if we can do more.

We really should address that. I think we need laws and regulation to force AI content to be marked as such. That’d immediately solve 99% of this issue. I believe China already passed some law about AI content labeling very recently. We should take inspiration from that.

Thanks for the detailed perspective. And I’m pretty sure you can’t say class war, or you’re immediately enemy number 1. At least for a good amount of people. 😅

So. Are you going to post something or is it just a place holder?

Really interesting that AI isn’t good enough yet to fulfill whatever low standards the advertisement industry has, nor do the people accept it.

I think most of us is well aware of that. In the USA you either watch the one propaganda channel, or the other one. But realistically only your grandma does that. The younger people consume some alt-right internet content and think drinking bleach is a good thing, you need a trad-wife and NOAA or whoever is turning some frogs gay. At least that’s the picture I get. Okay, I let my sarcasm get the better of me. But we really know media in the US isn’t good. Neither is social media and all the political bubbles.

Nice. !nerdcore@lemmy.zip is the link format that works for people on other instances as well.

Ah. My instance reports the last activity from lemm.ee from 45mins ago… So that’d be June 30th, 00:14 Estonian time. And the main page forwards to join-lemmy.org now. Looks like the shutdown to me.

Well… it’s 10 before midnight here. I’m pretty sure a bit east from me it’s the 30th already. Not so much in the west. But I don’t know where lemm.ee was located.

It’s 30th of June. Lemm.ee is shutting down now.

https://piefed.social/post/816659