lumpen2

absolute bullshit, it burns more in carbon to run those machines than it takes out, this is making shit worse at an accelerated pace

Part of it is due process, but it also means you have the right to not be killed by the actions of the government without being found guilty of a crime.

People who are saying “this is technically correct” forget that The 9nth amendment says this

“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

Which is to say, Just because a right isn’t explicitly enumerated in the constitution does not mean the people don’t retain that right. I would think the right to not have the planet not be destroyed by Fossil Fuel Companies would fall under that, along with clean and and water and all the rest.

i don’t think whitehouse dot gov is the best source for this lmao

You should try understanding where the other person is coming from before accusing them of being brainwashed by their government.

Have you ever looked at the so-called Political Compass? There’s a ‘left to right’ axis and an ‘authoritarian to libertarian’ axis https://www.politicalcompass.org/ So you can be authoritarian and leftist according to them (there is a hidden bias in the test, towards libertarian socialism)

I’m not even saying that, I’m coming at this from more of a ‘post-left anarchist’ perspective, that there is no ‘leftism’ as such but what is left or right is a relative historical development, so otherwise contradictory movements end up being lumped together as ‘leftists’ by historical accident, but they still end up influencing each other, so for example marxism has historically influenced anarchism and vise versa.

You’re saying there is some ahistorical ‘true’ leftism that’s objective and indistinguishable from anarchism. You can also just say “anarchism is cool” and I would agree with you and we can not have this pointless argument. see also no true scotsman fallacy

you seem like a nice person, i get that you misunderstood what i said at first. now you’re really committing to arguing with me

Leftism is cooperative and anti-hierarchy

well, no not really, that’s anarchism, which is historically a small part of leftism, sometimes there are no anarchists in a leftist movement.

“Leftism” historically has all kinds of hierarchies, Marx, Lenin, Castro, all very hierarchical. You can say they are not real Leftists. Personally I would not say that Marxists Aren’t Leftists, that seems incorrect to me. I have lots of disagreements with Marxists but they are part of “the Left” whether we like it or not.

The Jacobins, who were the first group of people to be called “Leftists”, were ultra hierarchical and dictatorial. There’s a funny story about the Origin of the terms ‘left’ and ‘right wing’: during the french revolution the National Assembly would meet in this big room, the allied delegates would naturally sit together. Some sat on the Left side, others sat on the Right side. That’s it, that’s the the origin, there’s no innate essence to leftism, it’s certainly not some trans historical entity.

okay so, just like in spatial terms, left and right are relative, right? There’s no objective left or right, there is no left or right side of the planet earth, right?

So for example there is a left of the Democratic Party, like AOC, but they are only left relative to the rest of the Party. So what is meant by left wing of Wall Street are the relative left leaning capitalists, i.e. bourgeois liberals

Left and right are also relative historically, what may be considered far to the left or right at one point and history may later on be reversed.

i bet you’ve just been sitting on the line huh?

you should have read the rest of the sentence, I said “the left wing of Wall Street” I’m saying it’s capitalist propaganda

um, imma call bullshit, because it’s not coming fast enough, of course it’s NYT, the left wing of Wall Street right ther