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You can not debunk swastika, symbolism and pre ai quotes. You’re just as ignorant as the .ml guys
“Nazis in the Ukrainian forces” can be used in two ways. The issue is that neither is really good-faith at this point in time.
In the first sense, that there are literally some Nazis in Ukraine’s armed forces, is true in every military force in Europe, and a frightening amount outside of Europe. It has the same energy as “Sweden has corruption too!” when discussing corruption in Russia - it conflates, intentionally or, rarely, unintentionally, the existence of the problem with its severity. Bringing it up, thus, is generally not much more than providing a smokescreen for the second sense.
In the second sense, that there is an exceptional Nazi problem in Ukraine’s armed forces, is not a serious position. That could have been argued to be true, back in 2015, when privately-funded paramilitaries only loosely-affiliated with the government had nearly no oversight and a small amount of political influence in addition - but the rapid buildup of the Ukrainian armed forces, previously in a very dire state, in the mid-late 2010s overwhelmingly removed the radicals and integrated units with previous paramilitary associations with the Ukrainian National Guard and its recruitment standards - ie not only no longer selecting for extremist views, but explicitly selecting against extremist views, and with those who do slip through the cracks not being given a choice of what unit they are assigned to.
The most notable unit so accused, the Azov Brigade, had most of its leadership removed all the way back in 2015, when the Ukrainian government took the reigns over from the (Jewish, strangely enough) oligarch funding them. There were accusations into the late 2010s that a far-right culture persisted within the unit, and that may be to some degree true, but the accusations were necessarily always vague and largely dependent on the symbolism of the unit, retained from its paramilitary days. The unit denies that the symbol has neonazi connections, and has crafted a convincing explanation for why it’s something entirely non-far-right, but even assuming that many in the unit legitimately believe that… it would be debatable whether such an anodyne Ukrainian nationalist interpretation of the symbolism was intended from the very founding of the unit. On the other hand, one of the units cofounders was Jewish, so who fucking knows.
Don’t forget that Putin hat links to neonazi Dmitry Utkin.
There are countless links between Russia and neo-Nazism, be it Wagner, Rusich, Rogozin’s past, or how Putin’s government used white power skinheads in the early 2000s to earn political credit by letting them murder and beat up immigrants left and right. And funnily, many of the neo-Nazis in Ukraine, including in Azov, come from that same Russian scene. After they served their purpose, they were to be removed as to not pose a threat by turning into a political force, so many ended up fleeing to Ukraine.
Unlike in Russia, whose neo-Nazis are driven purely by ideology, it’s a mixed bag in Ukraine, as the ideology there is intertwined with opposing an oppressor, be it Russia or the Soviet leadership. It’s all a matter of perspective. A Black Sun tattoo or a patch is barely a threat when that same person is there to save you from shelling, whereas a de facto fascist government without any clear Nazi attributes oppressing its own people and neighbors for decades is a huge problem.
Still not a fan of Banderites though. Even if they are part of those doing the saving, they still follow a hateful nationalist ideology. Once the war is over, Ukraine should focus on denazification of some of it’s forces such as deradicalization programs and stuff. Or do a civic nationalism focus like US once did where it’s like “be kind to your fellow Ukrainian, regardless of race, ethnicity, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion etc.”.
Even if Ukraine gets to force Russia out of its regions and the war is officially over, every country west of Russia understands the ever-looming threat, so I don’t know if Ukraine would want to touch some of its most experienced and battle-ready units. At the same time, joining the EU could also mean stricter enforcement of hate speech laws so that if anybody who decides to take their ideology beyond their personal space and attack others faces judgement. As it’s been said, there’s not much support for the far-right parties among the Ukrainian population, so that part of the ideology is less of a threat.
This, so much.
And for what it’s worth, Americans have Nazis in their military too. Just racist vile fucks. The Marines have Scout Snipers and so many of them got SS tattoos in the exact lightning bolt style of the Schutzstaffel.
But if Canada invaded Minnesota bc of it, the world would rightly lose their shit.
Americans have a Nazi leading their country.
Yeah, that was my point.
We might legitimately welcome the invasion at this point, though
*join
Now you’re just bending reality by claiming that people like Kapustin are not essential in today’s army and overall political landscape of Ukraine.
What I can agree witg, is that the Nazi problem in Ukraine had been being solved from 2015 to 2022. When the invasion started, Nazis became a significant political power.
Surely I am not defending Putin’s regime - if anything, it’s a cleptocracy enabling all sort of destructive ideologies.
Fucking what.
Kapustin is who you’re citing as ‘essential’ in today’s political and military landscape in Ukraine?
Come the fuck on.
The issue is that you’re sharing a propaganda canard pushed by Putin’s regime. I believe you when you say you’re anti-Putin - but you’re also unintentionally repeating and reinforcing untrue Vatnik talking points.
You fall for AI slop, deep fakes and shopped photos all the time. Stfu.
You are indoctrinated. You won’t be able to see it, but you are.
Have we truly been graced by the presence of an enlightened centrist, here to save us from ignorance?