• silvercove@lemdro.id
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    1 year ago

    Also lemmy.world is not the most stable instance and experiences a lot of downtime. My user experience got a lot better after I moved out of lemmy.world.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      It experiences a lot of downtime because the alt right kids who got defederated keep using 4chans ddos tool to bring it down…

      It’s not going down from normal user load.

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          If you’re on that instance they make pinned posts pretty frequently where they explain all that…

          Do you want them to call everyone individually and let them know?

        • imgonnatrythis@lemm.ee
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          Yeah the whole E for effort thing isn’t going to get them far. I just left. I don’t think many people are leaving Lemmy at this point, but courting different instances is a wonderful thing for the strength of the system. I am strongly in the camp that there needs to be a universal tool for account migration though. This is getting tedious.

    • gk99@beehaw.org
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      I’ve explicitly been using my beehaw.org account pretty much exclusively because of the constant DDOS attacks on lemmy.world.

      Kinda funny how their plan to seemingly kill Lemmy is just helping it stay decentralized by pushing people to other instances.

      • RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        do you think i’d have a chance at getting in if for my application i just say i want to get away from lemmygrad and hexbear?

      • Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz
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        You can’t really kill a decentralized service without burning down the whole internet. Another way would be to offer a competing services, but that hasn’t killed e-mail yet.

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      For the record I never wanted to create an account on lemmy.world, but I ultimately did so because other instances including lemmy.ml were not operational when a mass of users moved on from reddit so I just settled for this one.

      The fediverse needs to address this without making it the users problem, not my fault shit don’t work, I’m just here for memes and all the porn 😎

      Edit: Lemmy didn’t have to recreate reddits shit formatting either

          • can@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Sorry if I came off wrong. Maybe it’s because lemmy.world never worked for me but I found many instances in that time.

            Have a good day/night

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    Sucks but if Lemmy.World is gonna be the “face” of Lemmy it’s probably best to keep the shadier sides of the fediverse out. Just to keep the damn lawyer trolls off our back.

    Plus it keeps the “uninitiated normies” out of the Piracy instance. At least until they know.

    • SlopppyEngineer@discuss.tchncs.de
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      I don’t recall what movie, but it did really bad at the box office and of course they blamed piracy. Until somebody got a hold of the statistics and showed it was one of the least pirated movie releases ever.

    • s20@lemmy.ml
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      Imma get downvoted for this, but for some reason I care even less than I did on Reddit, which I didn’t think was possible…

      Anyway, do you honestly think that if piracy actually caused significant profit loss it would affect the billionaires or anyone else in the “investor class”?

      Of course not. They’re going to use the ahem “loss” to justify lower wages.

      I’m not saying don’t pirate. I’m just saying you don’t get to pretend like you’re just hurting the class that gets to decide where the loss gets shunted. That’s a wildly naïve view of how the world works. You can’t fuck over the billionaires that way. They have too much power to let you.

      • erogenouswarzone@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Or they’ll start injecting ads directly into the media.

        Oh wait, they’re already doing this. I forgot about the 45 minute Chevy ad in Barbie.

        • Sean@liberal.city
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          @erogenouswarzone @s20 oh right, because that wasn’t the case with movies like Transformers (again GM) or Superman and Marlboro being conspicuously visible throughout the movie, or ET when Reese’s pieces paid to be a central part of the movie

          • erogenouswarzone@lemmy.ml
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            Sean, I didn’t mean to offend you or insinuate that I didn’t like Barbie. I have a daughter, and watched it with her and watch the dreamhouse show with her on Netflix all the time. I actually really liked the movie - except the long boring parts where they tried to justify Barbie’s existence in our modern society.

            Yes, those movies also have heavy product placements, but it doesn’t somehow excuse all other movies from having them, if that is your point.

            My point is that piracy has already impacted our lives. The commercials in movies are the evidence. Further piracy will cause either more ads in media or less content that targets the demographic of people that pirate (ie 18-35 yo men probably).

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              @erogenouswarzone piracy isn’t the reason why there’s product placement was my point, since it occurred from the start of Public Relations and the practice of earned media and payola. Eliminating piracy wouldn’t affect product placement, and claiming so sounds like those ignoramuses who say if minimum wage is increased that jobs would be automated away - min wage has remained the same for over a decade and jobs are being automated anyway, jobs will be eliminated regardless of min wage laws

              • Sean@liberal.city
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                @erogenouswarzone similar to product placement, it’s not done by production companies because piracy is occurring, it’s down regardless of the state of piracy to maximize profits. Labor scarcity goes away when wages reflect the demand and profit maximization is disregarded; movies disregarding profit maximization would then not have product placement and it’s not a function of piracy, that’s just the scapegoat for things to take place of the profit maximization. Profit motive≠profit maximization

    • Anoril@sh.itjust.works
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      Yeah, because pirates never steal from indie developers and act like assholes if those developers ask not to do it. Those damn parasites asking to be paid for work, gee.

      • SaltyIceteaMaker@lemmy.ml
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        Oh yeah cause there are as many people who pirate 20$ well developed games as there are people who pirate a ≥60$ triple A game that has about the same quality as the shits i take

        • Anoril@sh.itjust.works
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          Okay, lets see some critically aclaimed indie game(undertale), as indie game undoubtly deserving to be bought, and compare it to AAA game series released the same year which deserves to be pirated, according to community. I will use call of duty because its the type of game series i see often said to be the reason to pirate by thiefs: AAA, high price, every year title, shitty studio.

          I use very popular local torrent website, as i dont want to search what is the current most used worldwide website for it, and if it tracks number of downloads.

          Undertale(2015)-51k downloads.

          CoD black ops 3(2015)-54k downloads.

          So now answer me, why? Is undertale the same quality shit as call of duty? Or is it even worse considering that it is way less popular, so in corelation of pirated copes divided by copies bought, more people prefered to buy CoD?

          • Fish [Indiana]@midwest.social
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            Because CoD Black Ops requires internet in order to access most of the content, such as multiplayer. Undertale does not. You got any other, more relevant examples?

          • SaltyIceteaMaker@lemmy.ml
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            Because most people play cod for the multiplayer wich wouldn’t work on a pirated version.

            Undertale is a single player game wich doesn’t lose features because you pirated it.

              • SaltyIceteaMaker@lemmy.ml
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                There are following possiblities one would need to account for:

                • you said you’re using a popular local torrent site, depending on where you live interest for fallout and undertale may vary strongly. (Maybe undertale is way more popular than fallout where you live. Or vice versa)

                • There is also the possibility of outliers. Be it for that particular site or all sites worldwide.

                • Also the sample size is pretty small with 2 games, for an accurate statistic one would need to increase sample size. Better yet use multiple different sample sizes (i.e. one where AAA and indie games are the same popularity, one where AAA is less popular etc.)

                • And at last you also could’ve just lied as i have not received proof that these numbers are real.

                Now im not saying that the possibilities are the case, just that it may be.

                If you want you can do a research accounting for these possibilities (and maybe even more) but i think this would be a bit much for a comment section under a meme.

                • Anoril@sh.itjust.works
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                  I would’ve linked website if it wouldnt get me banned. Idk, maybe i can link it in pm, not sure if there are rules against it.

                  Regarding outliers/variation/sample:are you saying that if i would do the same experiment i wouldnt see the same picture for other critically aclamed titles (idk, celeste, StS, etc.)?

                  Its just funny that pirates keep saying that they steal games to stick out to greedy companies and to punish them for making bad games. Yet when you point out that they steal good indie games just as much (or even more if you take into account overall sales of those games) all you get is insults.

          • Pyro@pawb.social
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            Whats funny is sometimes its used as a test drive. Baulders gate as a new one I know had a decent amount of pirating, and then many forms are talking about how they loved it and then bought a copy.

      • NuPNuA@lemm.ee
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        I remember a few months ago some comics creators were complaining about the various Russian pirate sites for books out there and people were trying to call them classist due to the fact not everyone can afford a comic. Most comic creators are not Hollywood billionaires, they’re artists living on the breadline in a lot of cases. By all means pirate of you want to buy people making it out to be moral or honourable wind me up.

        • Anoril@sh.itjust.works
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          Yep. Im ok with people pirating stuff. There is different shit happening in live. Just steal what you need and move on without making it bigger than it needs to be.

          But acting like you isnt leeching of others people work, like you are doing a honourable thing and the only ones against it are greedy corporations is fucking cringe. And then there is also people who make it into their personality lol.

          • NuPNuA@lemm.ee
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            That’s the thing, everything needs to be a community these days, some people can’t just download a torrent now and then and get on with it, they have to start a “community” about it. I’ve noticed shoplifting is similar these days too.

  • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 year ago

    Hot take: .world and others banning/blocking /c/ is better for the fediverse and for piracy. It means less eyes on piracy discussions and incentivizes users to spread out to other instances instead of just all using .world.

    • Skoobie@lemmy.film
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      Fantastic take. Imagine a conglomerate of smaller instances that largely make no waves and allow 70% of the community to just see what they want. Dare to dream.

    • remkit@lemmy.kya.moe
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      It’s a great take and I hope they do continue to ban/block more controversial topics so people spread out more.

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    i feel like blocking of instances leads to worse echo chambers than subreddits themselves. We gonna have bubbles of federation networks that don’t federate with each other. E.g. lefties, righties, “dark web” illegal shit, kinky shit, and instances that federate with all of them will be blocked by other instances because “use my blacklist or get defederated”. This is gonna lead to hell for users having to create fifty accounts for each bubble. Aint nobody got time for that.

    i wish it remained a user’s option to block/unblock content they don’t/do want to see. Each instance could provide their “recommended” default list of enabled instances, and user can go and enable others, like how NSFW toggle works. Maybe group instances into categories with tags or something, like “porn”, “memes”, “tankies”, “nazis”, “warez”, etc

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    Holy fucking shit they’re blocking piracy? What a bunch of losers. Get off the anti-corporate platform built on copyleft principles if you have a problem with piracy.

    • UnknownQuantity@lemm.ee
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      I created an account today on lemm.ee because I thought defeterating from hexbear sucked, then there were others and today was the last straw, even though I don’t pirate. I didn’t leave reddit for more restrictive platform. Lemmy.world sucks balls.

    • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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      Eh? It’s understandable. They shouldn’t be forced to deal with any legal issues that come with it.

      You can just use another instance that fits your needs, isn’t that the whole point of this decentralized model?

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        There are no legal issues. You can fucking talk about piracy completely legally. This is a moral position being taken under the excuse of legality by liberals who run their server with a strict political leaning, as demonstrated by their mass banning of socialists and defederation from every left wing space.

        • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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          Hasn’t reddit already gotten into legal trouble multiple times regarding that sub? Even very recently with film piracy.

          And let’s not pretend these communities only ‘discuss’ piracy, as much as they try to keep it within that limit. These corporations wouldn’t care even if they did.

          • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            The idea that corporations will come after federated instances that aren’t even creating the posts instead of the source is nonsensical. Until the source is attacked there is literally no reason anyone should be concerned, and if the source is taken down then it won’t be on other instances anymore anyway.

            • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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              The idea that corporations will come after federated instances that aren’t even creating the posts instead of the source is nonsensical

              Is it? Content from federated instances are cached on the instance itself too, no?

              I wouldn’t take the risk federating with legally questionable instances, and no one should have to. I’d just use an alt account for that on another instance that is federated, and I do.

              if the source is taken down then it won’t be on other instances anymore anyway.

              That doesn’t seem to be the case. vlemmy.net has gone down permanently it seems, and I can still access the content on there that were made while it was up from other instances.

    • fidodo@lemm.ee
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      Yes, because it’s illegal. If you’re going to be the biggest host you’re a bigger target which means you need to be more careful. What’s good about the fediverse is that you have distributed instances so smaller ones can support things like piracy, and if a small one gets taken down there will be others in its place. The same game of whack a mole is what has allowed torrent tracker sites to exist. If there was one centralized torrent tracker site it would get shut down.

      What the post says is exactly right. You’d be an idiot to have one account for your normal usage and piracy usage. In your normal usage you’ll inevitably leak personally identifiable information. Having multiple accounts and multiple instances is the exactly right thing to do to keep piracy alive.

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        There is nothing illegal about talking about piracy. Get a grip. This is entirely about taking a moral position, because the server is run by liberals with a clear and obvious political position, as demonstrated by their mass banning of socialists.

        • fidodo@lemm.ee
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          They’re not just talking about piracy, they’re linking to it. There’s piracy subs on Reddit too and they’re allowed because they are very careful to only talk about it and not link to it, and they’re severely gimped because of that. What’s great about lemmy is that instances that are on with the risk can do so without having to follow anyone else’s rules and users can access it by simply having another account.

            • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              I think the media companies have been abusing the DMCA to go after people who link to pirated material. also, I’m starting to suspect world is trying to get funding because they’re trying to “clean” the site up in exactly the way banks/VCs require for loans. it’s a conservative interpretation of the law, especially the recent rounds that purported to go after human trafficking but actually forced major websites to take down anything remotely objectionable.

                • Venia Silente@lemm.ee
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                  Wasn’t the admin of .world one of the ones who went into the NDA’d cocksucking meetups with Meta?

              • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                I’m starting to suspect world is trying to get funding because they’re trying to “clean” the site up in exactly the way banks/VCs require for loans.

                If that’s true they’re idiots. It’s not even fucking necessary. All the social media VCs deliberately take the most neutral stance possible for the LARGEST possible userbases. Did reddit? Did any other social media site do that? Fuck no they didn’t. They viewed them as user sources and valuable towards growth. It’s literally the opposite of what every VC funded group does.

                The cleanup only happens before an IPO. During VC funding companies are always as free as they can possibly be.

                • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                  yeah, that’s the part that confuses me. whatever it is, it’s another stupid decision in a series of stupid decisions, and hopefully it just kills the instance.

              • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                “Wow, Blockbuster sucks because I have to drive to a physical store. I know, let’s open up another brick-and-mortar store that’s exactly like Blockbuster minus the name recognition. That’ll show 'em!”

      • stebo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        Reddit never had any issues with r/Piracy. They don’t host anything, they just refer to websites that host stuff. If anything they’d help companies to discover what websites they should take down.

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    Facilitating Piracy no matter how you put it is wrong and illegal, it is wrong and illegal to support people who do it.

    Remember Netizen, when you’re pirating Disney, you’re downloading communism! programming-communism

  • makeasnek@lemmy.ml
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    Not sure why nobody in the comments is distinguishing between blocking a community on an instance (removing /c/piracy) and defederating instances (saying your users can’t subscribe to otherinstance.com/c/piracy). They are very different things. We should be very skeptical of defederation.

    Removing a community because it violates the rules of your instance is A-OK and every instance should do this. Anybody can run an instance, and anybody can set their own rules, that’s the whole idea of federation.

    De-federating other instances because you find their content objectionable is less ok. Lemmy is like e-mail. Everybody registers at gmail or office365 or myfavoriteemail.com. Every email host runs their own servers, but they all talk to each other through an open protocol. You would be pissed to find out that gmail just suddenly decided to stop accepting mail from someothermailprovider.com because a bunch of their users are pirates or tankies. Or blocked your favourite email newsletter from reaching your inbox because it had inflammatory political content.

    Allowing your users to receive e-mail, or content from subcommunities on other lemmy instances is not a legal risk like hosting the content yourself is (IANAL etc). Same way Gmail is not liable if somebody on some other e-mail server does something illegal by emailing a gmail user. That’s why you can register at torrentwebsite.com and get a user confirmation email successfully delivered to your inbox. Gmail is federated with all other e-mail services without needing to endorse them or accept legal liability for them.

    Lemmy’s strength, value, and future comes from being the largest federated space for link-sharing and other forms of communication.

    De-federation is bad.

    • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      defederation is good for nazi and CSAM instances. no one should touch either with a 10ft pole. there’s absolutely no reason to give them a larger platform.

        • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          “CSAM instances” <– Pretty sure any publicly facing instances with this problem would be tackled by law enforcement pretty quickly.

          as far as I’ve heard, they’re still up and major instances are still federated with them.

          “Nazi instances”< – These ones will likely de-federate themselves from the wider federated web, they can’t handle a broad range of perspectives well.

          this is a deep misunderstanding of how far-right groups operate. they actively seek connection with the wider community because it presents them a chance to recruit and they’re numbers get decimated when they’re deplatformed. offering them a base of users to proselytize to only benefits them.

          Social media has enabled these groups to both silo themselves and get promoted to users site-wide

          yes precisely

          This method of content promotion is responsible for the explosion of online hate content in the last decade

          this has a deeper material reason underlying it. it’s got more to do with economic decay and the lack of prospects people face than the algorithms. we saw the same thing early last century. far-right ideology explodes in popularity when the left fails to make the case for a more equitable distribution of resources and because our oligarchs fund them to an obscene degree – minor fascists with a hundred followers on social media will receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding (cf Ali Alexander). fascist ideology spreads because it poses scapegoats for the problems in society.

          Nazis had plenty of websites in the 90 and early 2000’s but they didn’t get much traction with them because Facebook wasn’t forcing them into your home feed

          yes, precisely. if normal instances federate with the nazi ones, this won’t be true any longer because their content WILL flood the feeds of many people. this will have disastrous consequences for lemmy as a platform.

          I really don’t have a problem with these sites existing, people should be free to have their own disgusting racist thoughts and share them with their own little chat rooms and forums and the like.

          I do as me and mine belong to groups they target. if they’re allowed to rise to accumulate any power, it will spell death for us. there have already been multiple attempts in the US to organize pograms against trans people, as an example.

          And they should be ruthlessly mocked and kicked out of every other space they could possibly go to.

          inshallah

          however, I’d like to point out that 4chan originally started making memes to mock the fascists – their use of irony turned over time into unironic fascism and they became a hotbed for neo-fascists.

          Again, using the e-mail example, I can get an email from whitepowerwebsite as a gmail user. That’s not google giving them a platform, it’s just a neutral protocol for online communication (e-mail) working in a federated state as it’s meant to

          email is a bad example because it only provides point-to-point communication, unless you join a mailing list. social media is different – views get broadcast to the wider public on a given platform. federating with nazis allows them to broadcast their views and create a sense that their vision of the world is actually what everyone else believes. exploding-heads is federated with lemmy.world and the consequence is that many users have left lemmy.world specifically to get away from the fascists dumping their disgusting worldview onto the platform.

          Gmail isn’t expected to police the entirety of e-mail, the legal liabilities lie with the sender and receiver.

          they actually do have liability under laws like the DMCA, SESTA/FOSTA, and the new slate of laws recently passed to go after sex traffickers (and in reality a wide host of “undesirable” content more generally). but that aside, I’m not talking about legal liability. I’m talking about the responsibility the people running these instances have to not help build fascism. it’s an ethical/political responsibility, not a legal one.

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            1 year ago

            You are right about worsening economic conditions leading to the rise of far right movements. I was more speaking to their digital footprint. If you remember early Facebook, it was nothing like what people use today.

            yes, precisely. if normal instances federate with the nazi ones, this won’t be true any longer because their content WILL flood the feeds of many people. this will have disastrous consequences for lemmy as a platform.

            If lemmy A is federated w lemmy B (the nazi one), it means:

            • Users on Lemmy A can subscribe to communities and users on Lemmy B and vice versa
            • Users on Lemmy A can comment on communities on Lemmy B and vice versa

            It does not mean:

            • Posts from lemmy B show up on Lemmy A (except in the “global” view on main page, which is non-default, and likely won’t show up their either due to massive downvoting). I would imagine, in time, that the global tab actually gets entirely removed since you have a problem where a single lemmy instance can massively inflate their vote count to make their votes the top voted posts across the whole network. You can’t enforce instances to follow the rules on this and you can’t audit their compliance. There are certainly some solutions to this involving blockchain but that’s an aside and those are at least a few years away afaik. 90% of users never do the “non-default” option in whatever app they’re in.

            So this flooding the feeds scenario, I just don’t see it. In user-moderated platforms, vocal minorities don’t show up anywhere, they get moderated out basically automatically except in their own little enclaves. There is no scenario in which Lemmy as a federation provides a good platform for them (outside of their own nazi-friendly instance), because Lemmy doesn’t work like other social media works.

            • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              In user-moderated platforms, vocal minorities don’t show up anywhere, they get moderated out basically automatically except in their own little enclaves.

              I will take this to mean communists make up a soft majority on lemmy given the number of complaints about commie posting keep popping up on the major comms lenin-laugh

    • jellyka@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      While I agree with you, I’d really love the possibility of block whole instances, just for me. I don’t want my instance from defederating from much, but I’d like for example to block all the porn without having to find myself some christian lemmy instance to move to lol

      • makeasnek@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        You would be free to do that, just as you can make filters in gmail. But the difference is who gets to make that decision.

      • Nia [she/her]@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        I think they’re actually planning on adding that soon, one of the devs mentioned it during their AMA that it’s one of the next big features they plan to try to tackle. (Edit: looks like the work is mostly done, it’s just under review https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/3869)

        Also kbin already has it, but I prefer Lemmy’s UI much more so I just deal without having user instance blocking for now

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      1 year ago

      Nah I gotta disagree on this one. I specifically joined this instance as a welcoming space. I’m glad we’re defederated from the tankie and far right instances. I want none of that here. You can feel differently for the “main” instances or whatever you want to call them, but for me, defederation is amazing.

    • TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      If someone’s email domain is @ihateminorities.com, I’d say that’s pretty fair grounds for blocking it.

      There are some instances that actively promote hateful or extremist content, and exist for the purpose of hosting it. There are others that do not actively support that content but do allow it, anywhere, making blocking one community not enough. Defederation is an important tool and should be used wisely.

    • Spedwell@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      If an instance is merely blocked, does that mean all content produced by that instance, or by a Lemmy.World user using that instance, is strictly not stored on Lemmy.World servers?

      Otherwise there might still be liability. Also, in the US you don’t even have to do anything illegal to be the target of a lawsuit—distancing from piracy is a practical defense against the cost of legal proceedings, even if it’s technically legal.

  • yukichigai@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I think lemmy.world is about to be rudely made aware of how many pirates were on their site.

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    1 year ago

    The only thing that makes data useful to humanity is the fact that it can be copied - not copying data is unethical.

  • Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Anyone know of a good/current breakdown of the available instances? I landed on LW during the reddit exodus, and so far I’ve been happy here - haven’t felt the itch to relapse back to reddit or the need to find a new home on the fed… even this piracy thing isn’t a deal breaker for me personally since I don’t really engage in that content anyway - but on principle I dislike that it’s been blocked.

    Despite all that, I wouldn’t mind poking my head around just to see what’s up, and maybe find my nice little niche, but I don’t know the best way to actually go about navigating the fed.