Why is everything so fucked?
Years and years of exploiting the people while giving them scapegoats for it?
Oh shit yeah.
But these are the exploiters
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Capitalism. Literally, look up what conservative politicians advocated for right after WW2. They literally said how capitalism led to the fall of democracy in europe and into WW2, and implemented strong social security and high taxes on the rich into their pre-war societies.
Like, this is what Eisenhower said back then.
Then, in the 80’s and 90’s, all of this would get dismantled, and now we have again the same economic inequalities, economic crises, political unrest and fascists we already had in the 20’s and 30’s.
Maybe, just maybe, the west’s political classes will realize–before its too late–that neoliberalism and funnelling the wealth of the many up to the few wasn’t such a great idea?
Ah, whom I kidding, if its a choice between democracy and less money, or fascism and more money, neoliberalism will send democracy packing.
Looking at Germanys history, and the current behaviour of the “conservative” and “liberal” parties:
Naah, they will happily delude themselves into being able to control the fascists and help them into power, believing it would mean more power for them too.
As long as the political class and the wealthy few have such a large overlap, it’s a great idea for them.
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About a quarter of my fellow dutchies voted for him. It’s insane.
Pass the dutchie on the left hand side
Europe? What about the dumbfuck tanning guy with blonde wig in usa?
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At the moment, I’m ashamed, sad, and gloomy about the future. Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party. Which is why this party wants to stop sending f16’s to Ukraine.
This is bad. Very very bad.
Could you come to me and make sense of Putin controlling the party and at the same time being staunchly pro Israel and issuing things like this:
On the eastern side of Europe, a major war is raging between Russia and Ukraine after the Russian aggressor unlawfully invaded Ukraine.
Seriously, discourse here is absolutely broken.
A Kreml connected agency inviting individuals to speeches etc. might prove that Russia tries to exert influence. The PVV’s actual party line is still grossly at odds with Russian policy. But sure, that’s part of the Deep Kremlin’s smokescreen …
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/22/geert-wilders-profile-netherlands-elections-far-right
In Kyiv, which has faced growing western war fatigue, the results will be met with worry. Like other far-right leaders on the continent, Wilders has praised Vladimir Putin’s rule, rallying against what he has described as “hysterical Russophobia” in Europe.
Four years after Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula, Wilders travelled to Moscow and met senior Russian officials in the Duma, a trip that was fiercely condemned by relatives of Dutch victims of the shooting-down of flight MH17, who blamed him for ignoring Moscow’s part in the disaster.
Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Wilders has somewhat distanced himself from the Kremlin, calling the invasion a mistake.
But a government under Wilders is unlikely to play the same role in aiding Ukraine as seen under longtime prime minister Mark Rutte, who led the effort to deliver F-16 combat aircraft to Ukraine.
In one of the last debates prior to the elections, Wilders said he would not support sending Ukraine more weapons, a statement that will send a chill through Ukraine, as military aid already appears to be faltering.
Wilders is a fascist. He probably lies a dozen times between waking up and his first coffee.
Looking at his actions it is clear, that he changed rhetoric on the current sentiment to get elected, but he aims to undermine Ukraine support.
Lots of mind-reading there.
Sure, but ties with Russia is not BS and not a “broke discourse”, there definitely is something there. And we need more discourse about it.
You said it was a “proven fact” that Putin controls PVV.
It IS! But for some people it’s too much to allow that into their minds. So I try a different tactic: a little slower, so you can also get onboard with this.
What’s known is that certain members of the PVV have dealings with an intransparent Russian agency. How you come from this to
Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party.
is beyond my comprehension.
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Sure. Meloni just started by taking unemployment payments away from people. Not a big deal. And I’m sure those weren’t even the people who voted for her because “rEfUgEeS”. Yeah, not a big deal at all. Surely this was the end of it, no further kicking of the weakest in sight.
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Oh, so rating agencies approved it. I almost have trouble believing it. Next you’re gonna tell me that foxes approve of a ban on fences around chicken coops.
Maybe I’m missing nuances here, not being Italian and all, but the press reports I found say it’s all single unemployed people unter 60 that were cut down to 350€ a month total, limited to 12 months. Some 160.000 people.
the government took away unemployment payment to people that would have been able to work but don’t.
That’s always the rethoric, but it’s a) highly debatable in each individual case. See above. If your metric for “could work” is “single under 59” that’s flawed by design.
b) By trying to hit the small minority of people that actually are just lazy you always hit people that are unemployed for entirely other reasons that may be well outside their control as collateral.
c) Trying to force people to take almost any job just helps companies that pay poverty wages to keep doing that and prevents market forces from doing their thing (if one side can’t say no, the other can demand whatever).
d) Even if none of this were true, there’s an existential minimum and letting people starve with less than that is just vile and a shame for any country calling itself civilized.
e) It’s only the beginning, and by not being solidaric with your fellow humans you show them they can pick and target the next minority the next time they need publicity. First they came for the socialists… Of course they’re going step by step.
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Well, they will undermine democracy where they can. Then they will ensure, that it gets harder and harder to vote against them and in the end your democracy ends up failed like in Hungary and Turkey. It’s the same playbook in every democratic country and people are ignoring it. But maybe you will think differently about that, when the new policies actually hit you and not only your neighbors.
Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party.
When you wilfully decide to live in make-believe land you shouldn’t engage in political discourse, anyway.
The lawmaker, who has previously been labelled a Dutch version of Donald Trump, will have to form a coalition government before he can take the reins of power.
And here we see evidence of why proportional voting systems provide a defence against populists and authoritarians by moderating extremes. Wilders is softening his xenophobic rhetoric in order to facilitate compromise. If the UK had PR, Brexit would never have happened.
- Paul Von hidenburg, Jan 1933
I mean, I do agree PR is better than FPTP, just for different reasons. Brexit is bad sure, but I’m not sure I’d want UKIP to have >12% of seats in parliament either.
I’m a salty remainer who detests Farage but there’s something deeply undemocratic when a party can get 10-15% of the vote and achieve no elected parliamentary representation, while the Tories get an unassailable majority with 34% of the vote
I’ll put up with some Farage-ist mouth breathers in westminster if we actually got some democracy in return
Exactly.
See my original comment: “I do agree PR is better than FPTP”.
It’s good because it’s democratic, not because it particularly favours or dis-favours fascism.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
An exit poll for Wednesday’s Dutch election says that far-right, anti-Islam populist Geert Wilders has won the most votes.
The elections will be watched closely across Europe, with the Netherlands playing a leading role on a number of issues, such as the Eurozone bailout and the Ukraine war.
Wilders, who leads the PVV, or Party for Freedom, has recently tried to smooth out his image by qualifying some of his most controversial positions.
Immigration, the cost of living and the housing crisis - which particularly affects young Dutch voters - have been the main issues in the campaign.
After the long leadership of Rutte - nicknamed “Teflon” Mark for his ability to overcome scandals - the Dutch are looking for a change in the way of governing, according to experts.
Rutte shocked the country in July by announcing his government had collapsed after “insurmountable” differences on immigration.
The original article contains 326 words, the summary contains 147 words. Saved 55%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Yeah I’m not too worried. It will take practically forever to form a coalition but with the PVV as a major player it will be virtually impossible.
Omtzigt just said, that he respects the voters and might jump over his shadow…
Yesilgöz said she thinks a majority with the PVV leading is not possible. Without her, PVV won’t be governing.
Since when can the VVD be trusted??
Fair point.
That was a way to walk back on her former statement that she wouldn’t join a Wilders government. It meant that she didn’t think he’d convince other parties to join his coalition.
Which mostly depends on NSC. We’ll see what they do, but I can imagine negotiations stranding and Timmermans getting a shot.
A coalition without the PVV would be kind of ideal for Wilders. He can keep bitching about how undemocratic the other parties are (obviously it’s not undemocratic but his voters won’t understand that) and won’t have to come up with any ideas. He can remain anti-everything and wait until the fragile coalition will inevitably fall, after which he’ll win 50 seats in parliament.
As much as I would hate to see Wilders as prime minister, I would perhaps worry more about the next elections if he can remain in the opposition.
Those 15 additional seats would have to come from voters who did not vote for him, getting angry about him not governing. If they wanted him in the government, why didn’t they vote for him?
And this is especially true in the case of NSC, who’ve said multiple times beforehand that they’d rather not govern with PVV. If you voted for them, you can’t (and probably wouldn’t) really be mad at them for doing what they said they’d do.
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I know this won’t be a popular thing, but I’m gonna say it anyway. Leftist parties should talk a bit more about the same stuff that the right-wingers do. Would rather have a left-wing party bait people into voting for them with immigration rhetoric, instead of the fash.
I understand what you’re saying and I think this is what happened in Denmark, but I disagree.
We just can’t normalize xenophobia. My partner and I are of different nationalities and races and we’ve both been immigrants. Our future kids will be mixed race and might seem foreign regardless of where they live.
I don’t want to live in a society in which we normalize hatred for immigrants. I want everyone to feel welcome, I want everyone to feel like they belong.
Of course with left-leaning parties this small many foreigners already feel unwelcome, but if even left-leaning parties start with this hateful rhetoric… I would lose all hope and probably just leave. I wouldn’t feel safe to live here with my family.
Leftist parties should talk a bit more about the same stuff that the right-wingers do. Would rather have a left-wing party bait people into voting for them with immigration rhetoric, instead of the fash.
What is then going to happen is that leftist values-voters will abandon those parties, so the parties deflate and still can’t govern. And if the new voters who were “baited” stay for a second electoral cycle, they then take control of the party and turn it into what we didn’t want to exist in the first place.
You win voters by convincing them that you have the best answers to their problems and the expertise to implement them.
Seriously, how come far right parties around the world are allowed to be as inflammatory as they can , but left wing parties need to be very careful about what they say or everyone starts screaming about communism and they get reprimanded?
It’s because most of our media and society has embraced capitalism and is motivated by profit, so any rhetoric that endangers bigger profit margins and economic transformation towards a more equal society is inherently against the interests and ideas of the influential actors of society
capitalism and fascism are natural allies, so the capitalist class happily embraces fascism if they believe it to be opportune.
I guess it’s like a morality/ civility thing for them, but at the end of the day, you can wipe your ass with morality when the fascists are winning.
No. you need to stay civil. If you go down to the level of the fascists they win. Their goal is to destroy democracy and democratic processes.
Thy have an advantage atthe game of politics,because they want to destroy the rules,so they dont need to uphold them.
This does not mean to be toothless. It needs clear positions and a strong fight,but not using their methods of unsermining the structure.
Every time they tried this only strengthened the actual right wing. People then say “oh, if even the left says it, it must be ok. But then I might as well vote for the original”. That’s not an opinion, it’s empirical fact.
taking the positions of the fascists only helps them. It normalizes their vile and hate and people will always vote the original. This has failed time and time again.
SP did that, and look where that got them.
That’s just stupid.
The PVV (likely the biggest party in todays elections) is actually VERY economically left. They are only right, because they are very conservative. They hate EU regulations, want to stop support to Ukraine, and want to stop most immigration. But they also want to reduce taxes on groceries, reduce healthcare privatisation, and increase minimum wage.
The problem with all those plans, is that they are just bulletpoints. They never made a sound financial plan. Now they will have to prove that they can actually deliver all these promises, while being forced to cooperate with parties that refuse to break the constitution. I do not believe they can.
They are economically left in there statements and manifest. But on economics and social issues they most of the time vote pretty right wing.
