You are deluded into Trump offering anything, he is not, he is taking it all away so Russia can go have their way with Ukraine in about 5 years… AGAIN.
No (NATO) Soldiers on the ground to safeguard peace.
No NATO membership … because putin says so.
No giving back territories forcibly taken by invader Russia.
No reparations to be made by invader Russia.
No more standing national Ukrainian army, “defensive” task force only.
No making money for Ukraine on their own resources, it will all go to putin one way or another.
No guarantees or safeguards whatsoever that putin will not come back and go scorched earth on Ukraine and utterly displace a people, like it is already doing.
No keeping the seized Russian assets as payments and penalties for the war, it is all to be given back to Putin together with the wests deepest humble apologies.
What does Trump think the Ukrainians were fighting for anyway if its all given away like that?
This is all purely the USA LOSING, there is no deal here, Trump is kneeling before Putin.
And an ending note:
Ukraine should be applauded, they DID make headway, reconquered lost territories, conquered parts of Russia itself, and most of all it stood firm agains a country far larger with greater resources to throw at them but they pushed back the invader and made Russia pay dearly every chance they got because Russia has no business in Ukraine.
And a small bonus on top: it showed the world how weak the Russian army really is, most of its technology now proven to be inferior and only its centuries old strategy of throwing cannon fodder 'till the other side runs out of ammo is what keeps Russia in the fight.
But again, Trump is the huge loser in this conflict, Ukraine can stand proud but abandoned, and Putin laughs 'till he falls asleep.
If you want to add something of value to this discussion inform me on what Harris would have actually done to help Ukraine or give them anything substantively different than what Trump is offering.
You have said all of what you said without saying anything that Harris would have done diffrently. Harris would have given them NATO membership really? Why didn’t Biden then? Harris would have given them NATO soliders? Why didn’t Biden then?
The conversation ran off while I responded to the original comment, I have no desire to mingle in an ongoing discussion…
Besides that, I can not speak of things that can no longer happen, Harris is out, Biden is out.
Nor do I know what Trump’s successor will do.
Why something did not happen under Biden is not relevant, Biden did not promise to stop the war day 1, he did not proclaim himself the great deal maker and ender of wars.
Ukraine should have been given NATO membership, OR at least NATO protection way back when they were forced to give up their nukes.
I say it was a mistake that putin took advantage of.
But the right thing to do currently, and something I do think Harris and/or Biden would have done or worked towards (undermining internal US politics not taken in account) is put a permanent American security force inside Ukraine, including naval bases.
There would be boots on the ground as a security measure and amends for broken promises.
Also, there is NO reason Trump couldn’t offer this in his “deal” other than putin saying no.
Instead Trump plainly offers nothing and calls it a peace deal.
As I an others pointed out now, this is at least the 3rd time that Putin tries to conquer Ukraine and various promises from the West were made (as well as promises broken from Russia’s side) in the past that Ukraine would know peace and safety … I do think after the 3rd time Putin needs to learn that enough is enough.
Now, returning to my original remark, this is not a peace “deal” at all … this is just not so covertly telling putin to come take it whenever he feels comfortable doing so, best while Trump personally is still in power so he can again sit back and do nothing about it.
Ukraine should have been given NATO membership, OR at least NATO protection way back when they were forced to give up their nukes. I say it was a mistake that putin took advantage of.
I don’t disagree with this. They should have either kept the nukes or gotten guarenteed protection like a NATO membership they were given a horrible deal by getting neither.
But the right thing to do currently, and something I do think Harris and/or Biden would have done or worked towards (undermining internal US politics not taken in account) is put a permanent American security force inside Ukraine, including naval bases.
I don’t think Harris would have done this at all. I don’t think a single troop would have gone there in a non weapons training capacity if she were the president. I think she would have kept on sending weapons and that’s about it, and, there’s a decent chance a end of hostilties a peace deal whatever you want to call it would have happened under her in the next four years if Trump lost as I personally don’t believe this conflict has 4 years left in it, regardless of who the president is.
You are deluded into Trump offering anything, he is not, he is taking it all away so Russia can go have their way with Ukraine in about 5 years… AGAIN.
What does Trump think the Ukrainians were fighting for anyway if its all given away like that?
This is all purely the USA LOSING, there is no deal here, Trump is kneeling before Putin.
And an ending note: Ukraine should be applauded, they DID make headway, reconquered lost territories, conquered parts of Russia itself, and most of all it stood firm agains a country far larger with greater resources to throw at them but they pushed back the invader and made Russia pay dearly every chance they got because Russia has no business in Ukraine.
And a small bonus on top: it showed the world how weak the Russian army really is, most of its technology now proven to be inferior and only its centuries old strategy of throwing cannon fodder 'till the other side runs out of ammo is what keeps Russia in the fight.
But again, Trump is the huge loser in this conflict, Ukraine can stand proud but abandoned, and Putin laughs 'till he falls asleep.
If you want to add something of value to this discussion inform me on what Harris would have actually done to help Ukraine or give them anything substantively different than what Trump is offering.
You have said all of what you said without saying anything that Harris would have done diffrently. Harris would have given them NATO membership really? Why didn’t Biden then? Harris would have given them NATO soliders? Why didn’t Biden then?
What would have Harris actually have done?
The conversation ran off while I responded to the original comment, I have no desire to mingle in an ongoing discussion…
Besides that, I can not speak of things that can no longer happen, Harris is out, Biden is out. Nor do I know what Trump’s successor will do.
Why something did not happen under Biden is not relevant, Biden did not promise to stop the war day 1, he did not proclaim himself the great deal maker and ender of wars. Ukraine should have been given NATO membership, OR at least NATO protection way back when they were forced to give up their nukes. I say it was a mistake that putin took advantage of.
But the right thing to do currently, and something I do think Harris and/or Biden would have done or worked towards (undermining internal US politics not taken in account) is put a permanent American security force inside Ukraine, including naval bases. There would be boots on the ground as a security measure and amends for broken promises. Also, there is NO reason Trump couldn’t offer this in his “deal” other than putin saying no. Instead Trump plainly offers nothing and calls it a peace deal.
As I an others pointed out now, this is at least the 3rd time that Putin tries to conquer Ukraine and various promises from the West were made (as well as promises broken from Russia’s side) in the past that Ukraine would know peace and safety … I do think after the 3rd time Putin needs to learn that enough is enough.
Now, returning to my original remark, this is not a peace “deal” at all … this is just not so covertly telling putin to come take it whenever he feels comfortable doing so, best while Trump personally is still in power so he can again sit back and do nothing about it.
I don’t disagree with this. They should have either kept the nukes or gotten guarenteed protection like a NATO membership they were given a horrible deal by getting neither.
I don’t think Harris would have done this at all. I don’t think a single troop would have gone there in a non weapons training capacity if she were the president. I think she would have kept on sending weapons and that’s about it, and, there’s a decent chance a end of hostilties a peace deal whatever you want to call it would have happened under her in the next four years if Trump lost as I personally don’t believe this conflict has 4 years left in it, regardless of who the president is.