cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/37022405
This is a carrier in the USA (T-Mobile).
I did a quick search for the other 2 carriers using the term “[Carrier Name] Family Tracking” and Verizon and AT&T also seems to have it.
And according to https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/t-mobile-familywhere-app, it says:
FamilyWhere uses geolocation data from the T-Mobile network and is not affected by changes to device location settings.
So it appears that its using cell tower triangulation. Turning on Airplane Mode should stop it (assuming there isn’t a separate tracking app on your phone)
Oh Wow, What a wonderful tool for abusive spouses and abusive parents. And telecom companies are making money off of it. 🙃
TLDR: Its a good idea to get your own separate cellular plan.
Hey bud welcome to 2015
The won’t somebody think of the children joke…not a joke.
OP does not know about Life360.
At least the other has to install it of their own will
Or, “hey we’ve been doing this for the police and gov’t for free and we have the tech so why not sell it?”
The sort of thing that’d be really fucking useful, anywhere in the last twenty years - if it was built by privacy nerds. If I’m out with people at a mall or whatever, we should be able to exchange GPS coordinates once per second, using approximately zero percent of any modern server.
But it should be extremely opt-in. Like not even an option to turn on and leave on. And if any fucking brand ever sees that data, the person responsible can track my phone’s trajectory through their front window.
Signal can at least share location if not live.
Try Paralino! It’s a family location sharing app but is end-to-end encrypted :)
I have been thinking about how or if I would track my own children. I do not have any at the moment though.
I think the only system that would work with tracking and still be ethical is a system with accountability.
They need to know that I would never check unless there was an emergency. So we’d have to have some sort of immutable log that they can check regularly. So they know if I checked their location. It should not be like a panopticon. in which they don’t know if the parent is checking their location or not. That changes behaviour. Even with the trust that I would not check, just me having the option would alter behaviour probably.
Youth and kids are independent individuals with their own rights to privacy, autonomy, right to select their own friends and acquaintences, right to freedom of expression and movement, right to make mistakes, etc. If they are thought right and have a high trust bond with their parents, preferably with little judgement, then it will probably be fine and most issues can be solved.
Gps Geofencing shock collar
Yeah making it optional for them to turn on because they are still entitled to privacy even though they are children is the key to building trust. Them trusting you as a parent is the most essential thing here, there is always a way around something, you want them being honest by choice rather than sneaky or you forcing “honesty” by coercion.
We always did that from when the kids were younger and my now adult daughter still chooses to turn it on when going on dates.
A reciprocal arrangement would also work. My little terror will soon be at the point of having a mobile phone. My wife and I already share locations in real time. They will get the same arrangement. We can check on them, however, they can also check on our location. Moving on from this, in the future will be a negotiation, not an ultimatum.
It’s also worth noting however, that a level of accountability is required with phones and social media for children. Knowing that mum or dad might go through their phone to check things makes them think about what they are doing. It is also required to make sure they don’t err too badly. The key is to be open, clear and reasonable in your requirements of them. Also, never mock or belittle. To you, it might be a cute minor kids spat. To them, it’s the life or death of their entire social life.
If you have a good relationship with your children, these will be a non-issues. Mutual respect (not fear) is a FAR better position to take, parenting wise.
Knowing that mum or dad might go through their phone to check things makes them
think about what they are doingspend 5 minutes researching how to hide stuff. Better to rely on trust then on pure force aloneThere’s trust in intent and trust in judgement. My goal is to train them so that I can trust their intent. Any search will be to cover lapses in judgement. If they are hiding things, then that is intentional. If they have thought about it enough to hide it, then at least they have thought about it.
My intent is to spot things like grooming, or bullying (at a level they can’t cope with). Things they might not understand the severity at the time. It gives us a nuclear option, it won’t be used lightly.
I share my location with my wife just in case I end up in a ditch dying while riding my motorcycle.
I have very mixed feelings about androids crash detection. The personal privacy is fine but - fucking google.
My fiance triggers his all the time by air drumming or throwing his phone around haha.
It’ll be like “were you in a crash?? Do you wanna call 911??”
Didn’t know there existed a crash detection function. I just share my location to her all the time. She does the same. Yeah I agree but I rather let my wife relax than not knowing. My point is that not all loses of privacy have to be bad.
Especially since you can selfhost the server for location sharing!
Tell me more :-)
You supposedly hate Google, yet have an android… The fuck is wrong with you?
Your alternative is a worse company. Android and especially Google’s phones are very secure and very private if reconfigured from stock. You won’t get that kind of security+privacy combo from any other vendor.
Plenty.
TBH I got a pixel, then life got in the way before installing GrapheneOS.But it takes like 10 minutes
There are several major degoogled Android projects, while Linux on phones is nowhere near mature enough for mainstream use yet.
De-googled projects get none of the benefit of being android, while all of the downfall of being android. So either use it or don’t. It simply doesn’t make any sense.
It’s like buying a Tesla and then replacing all of the systems within it because you hate Tesla. Like, wtf. Why would you buy it then? End of the day its your money, do what you want, but still. What the fuck.
What the fuck is this take? Do you not have any idea how android works?
get none of the benefit of being android
As someone who uses Graphene… No? It gets the benefit of being usable as a daily driver and having tons of apps. What exact perks are you talking about? You overestimate the benefit Google gives to the OS’ user.
Google Play Services is at the very core of Android and it will only get worse from here, and a very significant portion of the Android ecosystem requires GPS to function. Auto updates, built-in Android security features, a significant portion of secure apps like banking and financial service applications, Find my Phone, Cloud Backups, etc. The list goes on. And it’s funny because each one of these removed features are generally replaced with a third party alternative, which means you’re still trusting a third party with your data… I could understand if you didn’t want any company to have your data. That makes sense. But you specifically curtail Google who authors the OS in favor of a third party who also might be doing the same things with your data anyways. It’s all just so incredibly stupid.
You may be completely happy with Graphene, but the overwhelming vast majority of people won’t be because it removes the specific advantages of using Android as an ecosystem.
If you want to be free of Google, then be free of Google and don’t use hardware and an OS that they designed and made. It’s like hating Nazi’s but wearing an SS jacket because “it’s warm.” It’s fuckin’ mind-blindingly crazy.
I’m totally on engineeringgamings side. Both apple and Google are both bad companies imo but the Android operating system is probably the best thing Google has made and you have the ability to use it without any of the Google services.
I take advantage of side loading on a daily basis with repository’s like f droid and accresent as well as obtanium for installing apps from the source. And for the few apps I need i can use the aurora store all with never signing in with a google account.
For me the main feature of Android is side loading and I can take full advantage of that with no google account. In my opinion the idea of an ecosystem is a negative, i want the ability to not be locked in to any specific hardware or software vendor.
and a very significant portion of the Android ecosystem requires GPS to function
Which ones? Not encountered that except for maps.
Auto updates, built-in Android security features
At least Graphene does auto-updates of the system and basic apps just fine, and when it comes to installed apps - you can use F-Droid, Obtainium and other methods that can do it as well.
a significant portion of secure apps like banking and financial service applications
Yeah, those are often blocked off indeed. Although this depends too - for example, in my country all the major banks aside from one don’t require Google services, primarily to accommodate Huawei and other Chinaphones that come without Google services. Find My Phone - indeed, although there might still be workarounds, just not looked at that.
And it’s funny because each one of these removed features are generally replaced with a third party alternative, which means you’re still trusting a third party with your data…
Thing is - you have CHOICE in what third party to trust. And a lot of such choices are indeed more trustworthy than Google judging by prior history. You can eliminate middlemen, such as getting apps directly from the devs’ repos rather than from F-Droid. Oftentimes you can avoid a third-party entirely, as a lot of things are selfhostable.
You may be completely happy with Graphene, but the overwhelming vast majority of people won’t be because it removes the specific advantages of using Android as an ecosystem.
That’s not the same argument as you made previously - “De-googled projects get none of the benefit of being android, while all of the downfall of being android”. Removing Google does still leave a convenient daily driver - whether it’s suitable universally is another question.
This is going to get DV victims killed. At least on phone tracking like iPhone’s family sharing makes it clear it’s happening and often has a way of disabling it when you make your final run for it allowing you to keep your phone.
Not really, diversity visa victims were probably going to be picked up by ice and deported to Ecuador anyway, regardless of what TMobile does.
But also, this isn’t a new thing. Phones are literally always being tracked. If someone knows your number they could already pay a few bucks to locate your phone. This is why it’s recommended to make your “public” number a voip and never share your cell number with anyone.
In this context, DV probably means “domestic violence.”
Your toxic partner: “What were you doing at that cafe at 5:42 PM”
Is that better or worse than “where you been all afternoon I been waiting for you?”
But again, this isn’t new functionality. It’s a little easier than googling how to stalk someone by phone, but it’s not new.
If someone asked the latter question, I’d think they’re concerned for my well-being.
If somebody asked the former question, I’d think they’re stalking me.
This is a useful feature. If you are in an abusive household, then yes you should have as much financial separation as possible. For those that are in a happy and functional family with kids that you want to allow freedom for, this provides a measure of safety if you need it for potential emergency’s or if they aren’t answering the phone or whatever.
Unpopular opinion: Your kids do not actually have freedom if you’re tracking them.
Even if it is “just for emergencies” and “we don’t actually look at it”.
I enjoyed a completely untracked childhood, and I will make damn sure my kids can have that too.
Just knowing that your parents trust you is a priceless feeling.If you are in a healthy relationship, you can do this voluntarily and for free using functionality built into the OS or third party apps, without paying your network operator $10/mo
Agreed. My wife and I are both on iOS so there is no need for this feature. Our daughter when she is old enough for a cellphone, would be the one I’d use this for since she can’t turn it off.
then yes you should have as much financial separation as possible.
Yeah that’s a thing people in abusive households frequently have.
This is a problem even without this. The account owner can get lists of all outbound calls of their victim’s line if they share a plan.
The fcc requires some remediation if a domestic abuse order is submitted but obviously that’s at the far end of the abuse cycle.
The issue here can be traced all the way to phone companies pushing the very concept of family plans because it makes churn more difficult.
An abuser can shut off their victim’s phone line on a whim with convenient online interfaces.
Phone companies don’t treat their customers will respect because their is no requirement. No one of adult age should be subjected to any of these controls simply because someone else pays.
The health industry has rules around this. The moment a child hits 18, their claims disappear and the parent loses access to medical records.
There is absolutely no reason phones should not have the same restrictions but the industry lacks the will and will until the fcc or other three letter agency forces the issue.
Not a new thing, and I can definitely see good uses for this information. What they should have done is made it so that the one being tracked gets a log and real time notification any time someone is tracking them. This would alleviate some of the toxic spying behavior simply by making it transparent rather than covert.
Daylight robbery… Who’s still this mentally deprived to get another subscription based anything?
If you want to install free tracking tools, you’ll need consent or try to guess the lockscreen password to try to install it covertly.
With this, its doesn’t require consent, since most families are on the same family plan.
Only abusers would use this, since a normal person who actually cares about a family member’s safety would just ask them to install a tracking app voluntarily and be transparent about it.
Its tracking either way, but doing so voluntarily is way less creepy and also free.
Most modern Android and iOS allows you to share your locations for free via Google and Apple “Find My Phone” networks.
Mmm I can see absolutely no way where they misuse this information
This isn’t new, cell tower triangulation is a fact of the network operation and is part of how your signal gets handed off between towers as you travel. Airplane wouldn’t do anything unless it where to actually disable the sim entirely, and functionally even that doesn’t cut it in the USA given that a device without one can still connect to emergency services via any tower in reach.
This is just the carrier giving a customer the data that would already exist, for a price, which I thought T-Mo actually used to give for free…
The carrier can track a phone without sim card but it’s not the case if you turn on airplane mode. The whole point of airplane mode is to prevent the phone from emitting any signal to avoid interference with critical aircraft instruments. I don’t see any company risking to circumvent such a critical security feature, it would be easily verifiable.
Find My and Google’s device locator service exist, they’re free and work without a carrier. Ik they’re not that private, but you save money at least and they’re more private than your carrier.
/s
But you need geolocation. This, at least, can track you scarily accurate. Cannot escape it except you have more money depending on which situation. (Like parents giving it for free to the child, so the only escape is to either have secretly a second phone with own carrier plan or be open and purchase your own carrier plan by gaslighting its needed)
Or maybe a prepaid SIM card where you top up your credit.
No Consent??
I’m sure that the “consent” is part of the terms and conditions when you sign up for a line on a family plan. Not that it’s genuinely informed consent, or that people know what they agreed to, but technically…
Consent coming from those, that did not sign Tte contract obviously…
