they don’t really talk of Jesus specifically though that’s the kicker.
If Jesus did miracles and had such an impact on the empire his name would be known his story would be better known.
The claim that Roman historians wrote about him is semi true they claim there are Christians and they have a Messiah but they never talk about what he did or anything. They mostly speak of the persecution of these people. So it makes a lot of things we think about Jesus unverified.
The only thing we know is Pontius Pilate under the rule of Tiberius allegedly killed their Messiah. That’s it.
The name Jesus, who he was or what he did is unverified and likely largely stolen. I’m pretty sure Gilgamesh was tied to being a carpenter or a son of a carpenter for instance
I’m simply saying there is a historical figure who fits the bill BUT the story as folks know it now starts as a retelling of a tale by people who came later.
So it starts with an untrustworthy narrator.
I’m not trying to say he existed one way or the other just that it’s more likely a guy did exist who loosely fits the bill and the story as we know it was able to grow and be built from there.
I’d bet the “real figure”, if I had to speculate, was more likely rejecting the theism of Judaism over trying to push another religion.
Nope. He’s just a man they considered their Messiah. The name Jesus isn’t recorded by any other source which is why he’s a questionable character. Somebody died, not sure if it was Jesus because as you bring up this happened and likely the story built up further. I mean allegedly Jesus was born in both Bethlehem but also he’s Jesus of Nazareth somehow? His story doesn’t track
I’d bet the “real figure”, if I had to speculate, was more likely rejecting the theism of Judaism over trying to push another religion.
He was absolutely. There are these groups called Mystery Cults they’re something between fraternal orders and religions kinda, all about secret rituals. It is likely things like the sacrament was made in response to these cults, possibly mocking them in some areas.
For insuance Jews were considered to practice evil magic, the Eucharist was probably Jesus literally mocking people thinking Jews eat flesh and drink blood it’s probable that he wasn’t speaking genuinely when he said eat my flesh drink my blood, he was probably joking.
Another reason to think he joked is that is the story we get that got Jesus in trouble, Palm Sunday, he walks into the city upon a donkey claiming he’s king of the Jews and son of God which was absolutely mocking the Roman Emperor at the time
Jesus was basically just an anti establishment punk who got killed by the state for saying they suck and it was so traumatic people still talk about it 2000 years later but likely many of the stories were condensed to express the Jewish experience in Rome at the time. I don’t believe he embraced as much spirituality as people believe he did.
they don’t really talk of Jesus specifically though that’s the kicker.
If Jesus did miracles and had such an impact on the empire his name would be known his story would be better known.
The claim that Roman historians wrote about him is semi true they claim there are Christians and they have a Messiah but they never talk about what he did or anything. They mostly speak of the persecution of these people. So it makes a lot of things we think about Jesus unverified.
The only thing we know is Pontius Pilate under the rule of Tiberius allegedly killed their Messiah. That’s it.
The name Jesus, who he was or what he did is unverified and likely largely stolen. I’m pretty sure Gilgamesh was tied to being a carpenter or a son of a carpenter for instance
There are no contemporary records of Jesus.
Even of Pilate killing a guy named Jesus.
It all came later.
I’m simply saying there is a historical figure who fits the bill BUT the story as folks know it now starts as a retelling of a tale by people who came later.
So it starts with an untrustworthy narrator.
I’m not trying to say he existed one way or the other just that it’s more likely a guy did exist who loosely fits the bill and the story as we know it was able to grow and be built from there.
I’d bet the “real figure”, if I had to speculate, was more likely rejecting the theism of Judaism over trying to push another religion.
Nope. He’s just a man they considered their Messiah. The name Jesus isn’t recorded by any other source which is why he’s a questionable character. Somebody died, not sure if it was Jesus because as you bring up this happened and likely the story built up further. I mean allegedly Jesus was born in both Bethlehem but also he’s Jesus of Nazareth somehow? His story doesn’t track
He was absolutely. There are these groups called Mystery Cults they’re something between fraternal orders and religions kinda, all about secret rituals. It is likely things like the sacrament was made in response to these cults, possibly mocking them in some areas.
For insuance Jews were considered to practice evil magic, the Eucharist was probably Jesus literally mocking people thinking Jews eat flesh and drink blood it’s probable that he wasn’t speaking genuinely when he said eat my flesh drink my blood, he was probably joking.
Another reason to think he joked is that is the story we get that got Jesus in trouble, Palm Sunday, he walks into the city upon a donkey claiming he’s king of the Jews and son of God which was absolutely mocking the Roman Emperor at the time
Jesus was basically just an anti establishment punk who got killed by the state for saying they suck and it was so traumatic people still talk about it 2000 years later but likely many of the stories were condensed to express the Jewish experience in Rome at the time. I don’t believe he embraced as much spirituality as people believe he did.