Under the order, private businesses can choose to display signage indicating that ICE cannot enter without a warrant—thereby designating “their property as part of a city-wide network of community spaces that stand together in affirming the safety, dignity, and belonging of all of our residents,” the mayor said.
Johnson touted the order for building “a broad civic shield that limits the reach of harmful enforcement practices. It strengthens neighborhood solidarity and it reaffirms Chicago’s role as a welcoming city.”
My great-grandfather would lose his shit if someone had told him that feds would be invading states against the wishes of the local governments. We forgot what America is supposed to be.
My grandfather fought actual Nazis, sometimes I ask myself what he would think of our political situation today.
I don’t know what happened to all the pre Rand Paul libertarians that everybody thought were paranoid talking about government overreach in the 90s?
Federal agents dropping from a fucking helicopter to an apartment building in Chicago, kicking down doors, zip tying crying children, keeping people they just pulled from their homes in cuffs for hours without letting them contact a lawyer, and raiding the entire building like fucking pirates to steal peoples valuables is so fucking far beyond “overreach.”
They’re keeping us separated by race. As long as it’s “inner-city thugs” aka black people or latinos, the majority of rural America can handle it until it’s too late especially if they only consumer curated propaganda. Well, that’s what they hope. the people in charge of this are actually pretty fucking stupid though. Let’s show them how wrong they are.
Started with immigrants, definitely moving towards targeting people in inner cities to test the waters, then based on that recent memo next is “Antifa” or anyone opposed to the Trump admin.
People still refusing to see this are in for a hell of surprise when they wake up to a swat team reading their suburban and rural homes, and find out wanting the Epstein files released means you’re also an official member of Antifa.
Amazing that demanding from the agencies to adhere to the rule of law makes some people really, really itchy.
States need to be putting out their own narratives and setting rules, not just letting the rump regime set the narrative (“Portland is burning to the ground!”, “Chicago is a war zone, the most dangerous city in the world!” etc). They should use their own messaging. And states should band together to take a stand.
Here’s an example of the type of propaganda and tactics that Governors, mayors, etc. should use:
"Gangs of masked criminals are running rampant, impersonating ICE officers to commit crimes against defenseless civilians, who don’t know who to believe! [give an example or two]. This cannot stand–we must have law and order!
Therefore I have signed an order that our City Police (our National Guard may be called to help them if necessary) will arrest anyone who cannot show that they are an ICE or law enforcement agent. To distinguish them from the criminal gangs, Agents must wear badges in plain view to identify themselves and are prohibited from wearing masks that hide their faces. They must show valid warrants and provide their badge numbers when asked.
Anyone who cannot show they are a legal agent and acts violently toward or violates the rights of civilians may be assumed to be a criminal and be arrested. Furthermore, citizens may protect themselves or others in self-defense. If you are an ICE agent and don’t display your badge, you have only yourself to blame if anyone assumes you are one of these criminal gang members and acts accordingly.
Such naive hope.
I agree mostly with your message, however, a city mayor cannot dictate policy and procedure to any federal entity. They would also likely be opening themselves up to all sorts of liability, i.e. lawsuits for arresting a federal agent. Worst case scenario is CPD getting into a shootout with ICE.
Now unfortunately, before you ask and I’m sure you’ve been pondering it, I don’t have a lot of answers for you in what they should do. It’d basically be career suicide for most of these people in power and while I do agree it’s the noble thing to do, it’s also not necessarily intelligent to offer yourself up on a platter and most certainly be replaced with a pro Trump puppet once you’re removed.
America certainly has itself in a pickle. Good luck
^This is weak little bitch mentality right here.
Who says who can and can’t dictate policy now? There are no longer any rules. Laws are violated continuously by the very government that is supposed to follow and enforce them. The Constitution is nothing but a piece of paper now. A right-wing authoritarian power, enthusiastically supported by at least a third of the populace, has control of all three branches of the federal government. Troops are being deployed against the residents of states and cities the regime doesn’t like. The federal funding they are owed is being withheld. There is no more “you can’t do that”, there’s only strategy and tactics on how to deal with the situation. The available options are shrinking every day.
Strategy and tactics tell us that your idea is not realistic. You need to understand that laws are threats of violence and the last person to speak in any situation is the person holding the biggest gun. The mayor of Chicago cannot out gun the federal government and it’s nonsense to suggest he should try.
“Resistance is Futile” is a catchy philosophy, but not exactly a convincing one.
That’s not what I said at all. He is resisting. But he isn’t talking about arresting Federal agents like an online idiot who doesn’t know how anything works.
Pardon me for living in reality.
That sure is what it sounds like you’re saying, and while votes on lemmy are largely meaningless, they do seem to indicate that most people share the interpretation of your message that I’ve arrived at. Is it possible you’re not expressing your position as clearly as you think?
I can see how my first comment might not have been clear, but surely I can’t get much clearer than “That’s not what I said at all”. It sounds like you’re suggesting that your interpretation of my comment is what I meant regardless of what I was trying to say.
The mayor’s plan of “Ice free zones” is a great strategy because it sets up the inevitable court case. Regardless of what anyone on Lemmy thinks, the guy talking about “There are no rules anymore” is the doomer, not me.
There are, in fact, rules, and we either use the courts or [redacted so I don’t get banned]. Police officers arresting ICE is not on the table both due to federal supremacy and also because cops are fascists anyway and most are pretty happy about what ICE is doing. If you think cops are going to save you, you haven’t been paying attention.
Seeing what is happening reminds me of Eisenhower seeing the concentration camps for the first time and immediately calling for the media to photograph everything and for members of congress to view the atrocities in person. He knew that there might come a day when the world wanted to pretend that it never happened and insisted that there be enough evidence that there was no way anyone could deny the holocaust.
It was the greatest act by a president (in my opinion) before he even became the president.
The lesson being, everyone in these cities need to be recording everything, so that when the blatantly criminal administration and its enablers are finally held to legal account (and they will), there can be no denying what they attempted to do in America in 2025.
We need a EU Edition archive.org. Upload all evidence there. Someday Google search engine will become like Baidu and you can’t find any of the massacres anymore.
wwhy not decentralize it entirely.
I mean, problem is, its not a wikipedia that takes only 100GB, archive.org is in the TB and PB range.
If the funds can only sustain a max of 500 PB (for example), if you split that funding to 2 sites, you reduce it to 250 PB, if you want a EU site, a US site, and a Australia site, for example, you’re splitting the same pool of funds to just 166PB. I highly doubt people that usually donate $50 to one site is suddenly gonna find the money to donate $50 to each of the 3 sites, so the natural course of events is to split their donation to 3 sites.
(I mean, if you wanna make a personal backup copy to “decentralize” it, you can already do it yourself, just start downloading. I’m talking about a 100% clone of every bit of data, I don’t think individuals are gonna be able to maintain 500PB all by themselves and constantly check for data corruption)
To be fair, you definitively can decentralized parts of it using protocols such as torrents, which work great for that purpose. It ensures multiple locations having redundant data, a means of retrieving that data again, and constant checks for corruption
And actually come to think of this, this already does indeed happen, though only for a subset of the data. It’s much more tricky legally when it comes to copyrighted works.
If anyone has some spare terabytes of storage space, I do recommend you to see where you can contribute that space with torrents of this sort. It’s better to use that free space for good than just letting it sit idly by
So will Chicago PS arrest ICE agents who enter these premises? Because so far the law has not been an obstacle to Trump.
See now all the dem mayors and city who increased police budgets after 2020 are going to be glad they did, the police will definitely put themselves between the communities they’re been occupying and their fellow fascists.
Fuck the secret police above all others.
Makes me think, however flawed the American democracy is, the federal set up does indeed hamper the attempts of tyrannical consolidation. Diversity is not without issues, but having enough diversity allows deviation from enforced thoughts. So diversity is indeed a strength. This is what the MAGA wants to rid.
Half the ICE agents I’ve seen have been Hispanic so I don’t know how much diversity is helping.
they’re still black bagging people off of streets in broad daylight, in plain clothes with zero identification, and sending them to whothefuckknows…if your federal setup cant stop that then what the fuck is it for?
I said federalism hampers attempt at tyrannical consolidation of power, not stop it completely.
just saying…all these supposed roadblocks seem to be wide open…
A government that detains and assaults its own citizens without justification or warrant is no longer a legitimate government and must be dismantled and replaced with a government that serves the will of its citizens.
The will of citizens comes second to the rights of all people. It wouldn’t matter if 90% of the country wanted this. It would still be an unconstitutional infringement of rights.
100%. The whole point of the document was to put guardrails to override the “3 wolves and a sheep deciding on dinner” scenario.
Laws/rights are just thoughts and words. If 90% of the population wants something—barring some extreme use of force—they’re going to get their way.
Simply declaring something unconstitutional or illegal is a paper shield.
That’s not to say that there isn’t value in codifying these things. It helps maintain long term positions/policies when the government swings across the centrepoint, but they only work because the majority of the population agrees with them.
Law and rights are only valid if you can enforce them by force of arms. In the end, might does make right and the biggest gun wins.
Most specifically, it’s to provide a framework so that small changes are orderly and big changes deliberate.
Laws provide a framework that tries to resist change to the maximum degree possible, with the benefit that it’s generally agreeable enough to enough people that it’s preferable to the danger and force involved in not having them.
Waiting for the first politician with power of a police department to say this. The police will likely turn on that person. But it needs to be done. States/Cities need to defend their citizens. Or at the very least show how the existing systems have failed and fallen fully to fascism.
It seems ICE tear gassed some Chicago cops. Good timing, Mayor
Link? On purpose or out of incompetence? The later is just as likely lol.
Edit: Read that in reverse thinking the cops tear gassed ICE. I know what incident you’re referring to now.
replaced with a government that serves the will of its citizens.
What are we going to do about the 20 to 40 percent of people who support ICE and other horrors?
edit for clarity: replace “this” with concrete
Realisticaly, unless we are doing forced deportations or removing their voting rights, they are unfortunately gonna still have a voice in the process, but its society’s job to educate the next generation to make sure they don’t become those idiots. As long as the idiot’s party never attain a majority, or try to overthrow the democratic process, its just a permanent minority that is loud as fuck, but has no teeth. There’s always gonna be those types of regressive people, even in the best fuctioning democracy.
shows up to that movement with pitchforks
While we’re on the subject, how DID pitchforks become the universal symbol of rioting and revolt? As a weapon, I mean it’s decent I guess. You could certainly kill someone with it for sure, but it’s not some ultimate weapon. A chainsaw certainly has more raw terror inducing imagery. You see someone with a pitchfork in a 1-1 setting, and you could fight them off. You could grab the pitchfork as it’s being used against you and have a chance to fight back.
But a chainsaw? How do you fight a guy with a chainsaw??? Or a gun???
I guess what I’m saying is, if we happen to pass a hardware store along our march of revolution, could we pop in for a sec, so I can buy a chainsaw???
Because when the peasants would revolt, they’d grab the closest thing to a weapon they owned. This imagery predates the chainsaw…
You also want a weapon you’re familiar with and that you can control. In medieval farming communities, chances are everyone’s used a pitchfork. Axe less so.
Pitchforks also work better as infantry; they’re kind of a mini pike so they’re useful in a mass and against horses. Swing an axe in a mob and it’ll hit your neighbour.
They were plenty familiar with axes too. Medieval peasants would have to chop wood pretty much daily as fuel for cooking and heating. Also most medieval pitchforks were made from wood since that would be way cheaper, while axes were metal.
But yeah in case of revolt, unless it was a very impromptu affair, they would usually have blacksmiths which could modify their tools to make better weapons.
Bill hooks were also common agricultural tools that adapt well to warfare.
It was also common to quickly forge rudimentary pollaxes (halberds, etc.) because they handled intuitively enough to people used to farm implements.
Chainsaws:
- Tripping while carrying a pitchfork is less likely to result in a fatality than a chainsaw
- Chainsaws rely on external power sources before they become heavy abrasive clubs
- Reinforcements won’t hear you engaging your pitchfork from a block away
- A pitchfork is lighter and longer, making it easier to wield and have a potential for higher force with lower torque
- Chainsaws don’t like being used on fluid-filled fleshy bits, which can result in a tangled nightmare bogging down your weapon while you try using the “stuck shopping cart” maneuver on something noncompliant and screaming
- Pitchforks can be quickly shared between targets. Chainsaws quickly share bits of targets between you and anyone nearby
Guns:
- Requires training
- See issue about external power sources
- See noise issue
- Friendly fire
You could grab the pitchfork as it’s being used against you and have a chance to fight back.
Push harder
- ❌ Pitchfork: Long, unbalanced weight, gets stuck when embedded in a solid medium
- ✅ Softball bat: Less cumbersome, well balanced, doesn’t get stuck in squishy
- ✅ Miracle Blade®️: Abuse as desired and Chef Tony will hand-deliver you free replacements, CHEESE CHEESE
Spears, and (pun) by extension Pitchforks, being long is not a draw back. It is a stabbing weapon you could take out someone with a baseball bat before they even get in reach to be a risk.
The police use Roman legionary techniques to force protestors back.
If you take the mindset that you’re preparing for a nonlethal war and prepare beforehand by bringing tasers and attaching them to very long wooden sticks, or topping the stick with pins that may get stuck in skin but will break when stuck in skin, or even just use the very long sticks, all you need to do is find enough people to drill in classical battle formations for a while. I think the phalanx did good against a Roman shield wall if it didn’t have to maneuver much, which is perfect for city steeets.
Hell, you could go the whole nonlethal bullets route with 3d print guns, but I think firing weapons may result in very much and very lethal escalation, so while I wouldn’t recommend it I don’t see why 3d printed guns couldn’t be used in a staggered fire formation like they used in the 1800s, except you’d just keep preloaded single use pistols in the back pre-loaded with nonlethal rounds. It would be inaccurate as all fuck but that’s the beauty of infantry formations in the 1800: the guns were inaccurate as fuck. At least in the beginning.
If they’re safe enough to use against protestors then the police shouldn’t have a problem, right?
Spears (pointy sticks) are the oldest weapon. They might have been created by non-humans. They helped us come down from the trees and vanquish large prey with teamwork.
Eh, would not the club be the first weapon? Followed closely by our evolutionary omgwtfbbqhax: the accurate and powerfully thrown rock?
Miracle Blade!! And if by some chance the rebellion is ruthlessly put down with military force, “it’s the last knife you’ll ever need!”
I’m pretty sure it’s an old trope from early horror films. The villagers would arrive with torches and pitchforks to drive out the monster. This clip from Frankenstein (1931) actually has a mob with torches and clubs, but a similar clip from Bride of Frankenstein (1935) shows a mob with seemingly all kinds of tools including pitchforks and a pickaxe. (I can’t find a full clip from Bride of Frankenstein, just this quick shot in the trailer.)
A similar mob appears at the end of The Adventures of Hucklberry Finn (1939), coming for Jim.
Peasant farmers revolting against the monster being created in the nearby castle of the mad doctor 🤷🏼♂️
I’m sorry, but lots of governments do that.
This is awesome
Good on yer, Mayor Johnson. I’d like Mayor Bass to do the same. And the LACC to instruct the LAPD to enforce due process.
…
Well, I can dream, can’t I?
Imagine that! The consent of the governed.
This only works if they are willing to enforce it. So they would need to order and get CPD on board with arresting ICE agents. And as much as I would love to see that happen, police tend to be the biggest bootlickers of them all.
Even the mayor stated federal agents wouldn’t be arrested for violating this. So it is just pointless and performative.
It gives the populous more ‘room’ to intercede. Basically, a normal person at a cafe feels they have some permission structure to stand up to ice, after all, the governor and the mayor told them to. So they aren’t rebelling, they are helping uphold the law. I think things like this actually goes a long way in moving the general public. At the very least it doesn’t hurt
According to the mayor, while federal agents in violation of the order would not be arrested by Chicago police, the city will take the federal government to court if necessary.
So yeah… nope, they’re not going to enforce it.
Ah, yes. The government that famously doesn’t listen to court orders will be sued. I’m sure that lawsuit will finally bring a stop to all of this lawlessness this time.
The police are probably still pissed off they got tear gassed (that is for black people!). But the best anyone can hope for is “Yeah. This library is an ICE free zone. Two feet out the door isn’t. So just wait there with your guns”
They can confiscate their stuff.
He said they would fight it in the courts. And we have seen how much respect they have for the judiciary and legal process.
The administration is TERRIFIED of its own citizens and they are doing anything they can do to suppress our rights and make us suffer.
At the same time, they are crashing the economy as fast as possible so we don’t have time to fight back and protest. The struggle is their favorite part.
Yeah… sometimes I feel like growing up with an abusive vindictive parent kinda prepared me for this. I wish I had something better to tell you, but the reality is they just suck and they shouldn’t be in control. They’re abusive. They’re vindictive. I’m sorry and you deserve better, but you’re stuck with them (for now). You’re not alone though. We’re all stuck with them (for now).
They get off on watching you struggle, but they also have fragile little egos that are easily bruised. Use that to your advantage. Take some comfort in the fact that narcissists are so blinded by their own egos, it usually means they can be outsmarted because underestimating everyone who isn’t them is their default mode. Their thinking is really rigid because they lack empathy and the ability to see things from any perspective other than their own. Often this results in them inadvertently but repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot while trying to assert their dominance. Try to laugh about it when it happens. Take care of yourself. Try to take care others. Stick together and remember you’re better than them.
Because fascists fear one thing more than each other, people.
they are hoping to be another 08 crisis, when everyone was desperate for any job, even joining the military
Trump and his brown shirts.
Hopefully red shirts soon
its brown because they were up trumps behind.
Get warrants, fuckos
