Maps and documents recovered from the bodies of Hamas attackers reveal a coordinated plan to target children and take hostages inside an Israeli village near Gaza.
Documents exclusively obtained by NBC News show that Hamas created detailed plans to target elementary schools and a youth center in the Israeli kibbutz of Kfar Sa’ad, to “kill as many people as possible,” seize hostages and quickly move them into the Gaza Strip.
The attack plans, which are labeled “top secret” in Arabic, appear to be orders for two highly trained Hamas units to surround and infiltrate villages and target places where civilians, including children, gather. Israeli authorities are still determining the death toll in Kfar Sa’ad.
Remember when we almost had peace in '94 and then a Zionist fucked it all up?
Wait I don’t know about that.
Copied from myself elsewhere:
In 94 we (royal) almost had peace. In '93 The Oslo accords promised Palestinians self governance in 5 years. Israel under Rabin and Abbas with the PLO had an agreement for Palestine to be run by the PA in the mean time and work towards peace.
Rabin along with either Abbas or Arafat (can’t remember) even pulled Israeli troops out of occupied Palestine and gave land back as part of the peace agreement, marking the most significant step towards peace we will see.
But then Rabin was assassinated in 95 by a zionist. Israel turns over to Netanyahu. Netanyahu refuses to meet with Arafat.
Oslo II fell apart as the US refused to recognize Hamas (who had popular support), preferring the secular Fatah (PA). Whats the point in holding an election if it wont be recognized anyways? Hamas doesn’t enter the '96 race.
At some point Netanyahu starts funding Hamas knowing that he can also pit Hamas against the Fatah. Netanyahu will fund Hamas on multiple occasions throughout the 90’s and 2000’s.
In '97 the US declares Hamas a terrorist group, ending any chance of an election that satisfies the people.
Hamas wins the '06 election
Saying Rabin was assassinated by a Zionist is very unfair. Especially since Rabin was one of the biggest Zionist leaders since ever. Yigal Amir (Rabin’s killer) is a Kahanist terrorist. And while self identifying as a Zionist, he probably also opposes most major Zionist leaders across history, from Ben Gurion to Rabin. It’s similar to saying a KKK hate crime was commited by Wstern American patriots.
Anyway after the murder, Israel had made very serious attempts at peace.
Some of those were very extensive and Israel made large concessions in the negotiations. Most of the serious attemts were ended by the Palestinians. There’s a saying in israel “The Palestinians never miss the opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace”. Today the Palestinian Authority (PA) has very little legitimacy within the Palestinian population, and arguably don’t represent the Palestinian people. It’s not cut and dry since there hadn’t been any elections in decades, but the sentiment for Hamas and other Palestinian factions and against the PA is very clear.
In spite of your bad faith arguments in this thread I do intend to look into this list.
I’m sorry if you felt my arguments were in bad faith, and I’m sorry if I got a bot hot headed. I don’t mean to be rude, I am just very hurt after so many friends and family of mine got murdered. Hope you understand
Absolutely I do. And I hope you forgive me if I’ve said anything too ignorant.
I really am doing my best to inform myself. As soon as I saw your comment I skimmed a few articles about the events you listed and I could tell you put effort into it.
Honestly, this interaction renewed my faith in humanity a little. I’m going to try to put more effort in to make sure I’m not blaming anyone I shouldn’t while defending my “side”. Thanks :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter
Must be fun to negotiate with a party for peace, who declared in their charter that all this is “a waste of time and vain endeavors”, alongside genocidal racist fantasies.
Israel politics has it’s own “gems”, but I find the Hamas hard to top. These aren’t accidents, this is all intentional. They don’t want peace.
If I moved into your house without permission and told you I’ll bomb the shit out of you if you look at me funny you wouldn’t accept it right away either.
Which is the core reason why there is no peaceful solution.
Israel was founded as a Jewish ethnostate. Imagine if the same was done but it was a white ethnostate. Who would be the first to move there?
White nationalists who want a pure white ethnostate, that’s who. That’s what happened in Israel. Those who wanted àto separate themselves from ‘the other’. It’s why there is such a strong radical ethnic based faction of Jews in Israel whose views aren’t reflected in most of the Jewish populations elsewhere.
Conversely, those who haven’t found a way to flee Gaza over the decades are more likely to believe that they, as an ethnicity, are the rightful owners of the various holy sites and land in the area and the only solution is the removal or subjegation of the Jewish people from the region.
With both sides having significant and loud sections of their populations calling for the destruction of the other, how can peace ever happen?
There’s a wide spectrum of available stances and options between “accept it right away” and intentional, declared genocide. That’s no excuse.
So that’s why the Oslo accords stalled. That’s horrible.
Yeah there might be more to it but I’m pretty sure that assassination fucked up peace for the last 20 years.
Here’s one of the sources I used to come to my conclusion, it can give a more detailed explanation of the breakdown https://www.britannica.com/topic/Oslo-Accords#ref360514
Rabin was a well respected politician and former military hero, the Israeli public trusted him and would have made peace. Once he was assassinated that radical upstart Netanyahu gained more prominance and slow walked the peace process over a cliff.
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It was not my intention although I can totally understand why it appears that way.
I plan to look into Arafat next. Followed by the events listed by E.B.Y.W. @ lemmy.word
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I’m sure Arafat and the PLO were the reason the IDF killed 223 Palestinians, some children, during a peaceful protest in 2018.
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Don’t care. Israel is committing war crimes today . October 14, 2023.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
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Free Palestine 🇵🇸 and maybe I’ll consider reading. Deal?
Argh. Yigal Amir was and is a Religious Zionist, Rabin himself was a Labour Zionist.
I appreciate the clarification.
I posted the same comment in another thread and got some good feedback there too.It was this thread.I think “terrorist” is a loaded word and I wanted to understand the context because I’m very familiar with the US’s history of using the word “terrorist” as a cudgel.
And our history of inserting ourselves, refusing to work with the local democratically elected government, setting up our own candidate in the race and… uh sometimes assassinating the opposition if it looks like the plant isn’t going to win. (see Jacobo Arbenz, Mohammad Mosaddeq, Salvador Allende, if you want more listen to “same thing” by Flobots but make sure to verify things after)
But my goal isn’t to say Hamas good Israel bad (although I very much laid it all on Netanyahu). My goal was to see if I could absolve Hamas of the “terrorist” label from the US. Without that label it’s a lot easier to see the true story of Palestine.
But in the interest of staying focused on how this is a problem with Netanyahu and not the Israeli people I wanna say there were several peace talks brought to my attention (several or most involving Bibi) in the thread that I still need to dig into. And I do intend to keep reading so I can speak more accurately on the topic.
Nope, you can’t. On the other side of things you can’t absolve Kahanites of the same label, Hamas and Kahanites both employ terrorism as a tactic, both are fascist, and both are genocidal. OTOH I wouldn’t go so far and extend those label to all of religious Zionism, in the same sense that there’s a rather large difference between Mormons and the Ku Klux Klan.
As to Netanyahu: I rather see him as what we call in Germany a stirrup holder: He’s right-wing, no doubt, but primarily he’s interested in power because it allows him to be corrupt without facing prison, if another approach would fulfil his goals he’d drop Otzma Yehudit without second thought. He’s basically a more coherent, more strategic, less impulse-driven, Trump, but as blind to the dangers of fascism and the ways they achieve power as too fucking many other people.
Maybe I’m explaining myself poorly, maybe you disagree. To clarify to anyone still reading I am not trying to absolve anyone of murder. Hamas did commit terrorism as defined in the dictionary.
But should the US be the entity in charge of making that distinction? Has the US ever used that designation inappropriately?
As an American I think Americans are particularly brainwashed about the term after the War on Terror and tying the word so heavily to racism. Terrorists are monsters but that rhetoric allowed us to dehumanize anyone accused of being a terrorist to horrific levels.
It is my belief that many of us realize we were manipulated by the rhetoric of War on Terror but find it a lot harder to look back before the War on Terror with the same clarity.
You mean a Zionist made Israel great again while cultivating the “victim” mentality of Jews in his country to a degree where (predominantly female) German tourists are openly cornered and asked how they personally would make up for “their” atrocities while those atrocities happened 2 generations ago?