Oh look, another reason not to buy BMW, I’ll just add it to the other 456788656752 reasons.
The problem is that once one manufacturer starts doing this, they’ll all do it, so you won’t even have the option of buying a new car without a subscription.
I’m so gonna install Linux on my future car
‘What do you mean the car is missing a driver?? Im sitting right here!’
In Lemmy, Linux is always the answer.
If they’ll let you.
It probably already runs Linux, just hack it
I’d sooner hack the car
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What manufacturer? Name and shame.
CarPlay I can see if there’s an ongoing cost of making sure future Apple updates don’t break compatibility, but it’s very highly unlikely that will ever be an issue.
Name and shame, please. Also, did you get notified about all the subscriptions by the dealership? If yes, why did you still decide to buy it?
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Did you call out the dealers on their lies?
Or just drive through the dealership’s front window and then declare “I’d like a refund, please”. A few of these occurring nationwide and they’d halt their bullshit.
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I’m glad my current car is a 2015 Mazda. It’s recent enough to have a touch screen and Bluetooth, but not so recent that it’s got an LTE/5G radio that can phone home and let them sell my driving data to insurance companies or force subscription payments on me. When I get my next car in a decade or so, hopefully I can import a cheap Chinese EV that’s either easy to jailbreak, or doesn’t have any of that bullshit included.
I was a BMW mechanic from 2009-2012. I can’t believe anyone buys them after what I’ve seen. The engines are all made of plastic and start to literally crumble to pieces and leak oil from absolutely everywhere after ~70k miles. We had to have customers sign disclosures on these cars because inevitably they would just crumble to pieces when we went in to replace one part and we’d end up having to replace others to reassemble it. Or we would pressure-test the cooling system to find a leak and end up creating several more.
On their V8s there’s a plastic cooling tube that runs from front to back on the engine. The tube itself is like $10 but you had to disassemble the entire engine to access it so it would cost several thousand $ in labor.
We eventually started selling an aftermarket CNC aluminum one that was threaded and expanded into the hole. We would just beat the old one out with a hammer and thread the new one in in a couple hours and they’d never have that problem again. Why BMW couldn’t think of that is beyond me. The people who did made buckets of money selling aluminum tubes for hundreds of dollars just because they could.
You might expect cost cutting like that from a Kia or something but not from a car that’s advertised as a premium brand and sold at premium prices.
You’re literally just paying more for less.
BMW’s are pure over engineered garbage.
The Buick 3800 had a tube like that on top, it would crack from thermal stresses and piss out hot coolant. There was an aluminum aftermarket replacement like you describe but it was Dorman and a cheap fix. Buick also addressed the problem in later versions. I miss that engine.
I used to own a W124 series Benz (bought used for 5% of sticker price, I ain’t no fauntelroy). Nearly everything on it was redundant or excessively skookum.
When systems that weren’t as rugged started going down, like the vacuum controllers for doors or the 4matic computer etc, the car still worked safely with reduced convenience. A few minor design flaws like the wiring harness but that’s it. Room to work under the hood, too.
It was built in '93 when the engineers still ran the company.
Current main driver is the super reliable '03 CRV.
I love my bmw plug in hybrid. I don’t see myself ever paying for a subscription though. Maybe if it comes with pizza, but even then it’s unlikely.
Oh look, another reason not to buy
BMWa CARYeah I’ll just sprout wings and fly everywhere.
Please do if possible.
Seriously tho, was it so hard to understand that i was pointing out that all big car companies are starting to do this?
If this is a reason not to buy a BMW then its a reason not to buy any modern car. Which it is imo.
The problem is a huge number of cars were removed and destroyed which would otherwise have been in the used market. It’s a big reason why even used cars are priced so high. Buying used isn’t what it used to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Allowance_Rebate_System
And they want to do it again not because it helped anyone get a car but because it let them make the prices so stupidly high.
I agree that new cars suck but they’re removing the stocks of used cars that would be worth buying at any price and at our expense.
Agree with that yep, its also already been shown years ago that modding used cars into electric cars is totally doable, economic and saves fuckloads of resources. Same thing happening with tractors too btw. Lots of farmers are buying up old tractors because they can actually repair them on site when they break down. With modern ones they have to wait for some asshole from john deer to come in with a debugging laptop to do the exact same thing for lots of money and downtime.
a NEW car
ftfy then
While this is completely true, it’s a bit tone-deaf. Fuck cars, but many people barely have a choice because their public transport consists of a handful of busses that come once an hour and nothing is close by.
As an aside, I spend a whopping total of about $1/day (edit Australian $, so less USD) on maintenance and electricity for my electric cargo bike. I go about 17 km each way to work and the funny thing is it’s only about 10 mins longer than driving, lol
Imagine a bus coming once an hour… try only twice a day for the entire county… early morning and late night.
💀 where is this?
… Re-read before I sent. I thought this said country, lol.
Yikes, why even have a bus at that point?
Yeah i know many people dont really have much of a choice, see the thread nex to your comment. I was more intending to talk shit about modern cars that all seem to have this shit.
If once you do not succeed, just try again next year. They tried and backtracked putting heated seats behind a paywall not even a year ago see here.
Unless laws are made to make this fundamentally illegal, they’ll just keep pushing until it sticks. And once one manufacturer succeeds, they’ll all follow.
Since 2019 you have to pay 800$ a year to have your bmw use adaptive drive, 150$ to use the app.
Next up, Anti-lock brakes as a Subscription Service. ASS.
Haha… connection to server cannot be established. Suspension resetting to default.
This is extra hilarious in the face of the crib manufacturer that just decided to subscription paywall basic functions of their crib… or the slow cooker… And that’s just this week.
Game manufacturers pulling the plug on games they sold removing the servers yanking the games.
And now people think that you can buy a product that is going to last longer and costs several orders of magnitude more… and you can only hope that the manufacturer can be bothered to:
- Keep the service safe and secure.
- Have it be reliable.
- Maintain it operational for the actual lifespan of the car (not some MBA’s definition of economic lifespan or something).
- Not fuck with you on the price. (We’re not shutting down the servers, but the price will be 50 a month and 5 euros per adjustment).
But the sale case is easy… lease car drivers. This way they can enjoy premium functions not incorporated into the sale price of the car. I hope the IRS that taxes these things sees through this ploy and taxes the vehicles for installed functions wether you pay for them or not. Saw this happen with Tesla’s… taxed based on their initial price… and then the user added 15k of functions after a day… and the tax was still based on the original sticker price.
At least in the case of games, the servers are an ongoing expense that adds value to the game. I want to play against other people online and provide by that costs ongoing expenses.
Oh you think this feature will function locally… I’ll bet this goes from their app to their servers first to verify subscription and then to your car. Someone needs to pay for the subscription verification platform.
Anyone that buys a car that has shit like this is a fool.
True, however we must fight this because otherwise, when you need to buy a car, there won’t be an option without a shitty subscription attached
Remember that some of is live in shitty cities with bad or no alternative ways of moving around
I agree totally, but I don’t think it will matter with new vehicles. They’re going to track you and spay on you more than your phone. I will forever drive old stuff. I’m a mechanic so that’s a super easy option for me. I won’t own anything new enough to spy on me, my car will be MY car.
100%, I am not a mechanic but I like auto work and have learned most of the basics. It is not really enough to own an older car forever but it should help out to some extent.
If you ever think you’re in over your head, just remember, It’s just nuts and bolts.
The article implies nobody even knew it already had this functionality. I’m sure the customers weren’t told either.
I’ve heard for years that BMW was doing shit like this. Heated seats is what it started with. Toyota did it with remote start but I think they backed down after the outrage.
We are pirating car suspension now holy shit
You wouldn’t download a car
You wouldn’t download a configuration profile for your cars suspension!
People stealing owners’ property will be sent to the gulag!
TPB go brrrrrrrrrr
I would actually. A 1967 Shelby Cobra kit car if I had a choice.
Lmk if you find out how
M2, pls
Brick it by bios update:)))
This sure as fuck isn’t the best timeline, but it does have its moments
😂😂😂 good ol’ pirate bay
“The pressure eased off a little when they ended subscriptions tied to heated seats, but the Internet rage machine has come back for vengeance.”
lol. It’s not vengeance or rage, its simply the fact that making someone pay for something they already own is dumb.
Why is this bad in a nutshell.
A) The only way to control access to this feature is to lock down and phone home. If it doesn’t phone home then when someone figures out a way around your present security its possible for someone to sell said features forever. Such DRM could hurt repeatability by accident or more likely on purpose.
B) There is no reason to fail open so even if BMW is still chugging when they stop taking your cars phone calls and retires those servers you get no more feature.
C) The amount spent over the lifespan of a car wherein people opt to take care of their valuable asset absolutely dwarfs the cost able to be extracted up front
D) This functionality opens the door to a hacker not just turning off your features but turning off your car. This includes state sponsored attackers and people who are just generally pissed off at the geopolitical actions of your country of origin. If you are in the US that is a lot of fucking people.
E) Product segmentation on average increases the amount you can extract per user. Allowing segmentation by features turn on or off in software by the month it allows far greater segmentation with no reasonable expectation that the baseline will be lower. This means the lowest end user of a model pays the same for even less. The median user pays somewhat more and the max user pays a LOT more.
F) This means wholly paid for used cars now come with a car payment to the manufacturer.
Now there are half a hundred people on the boards of these companies and 338M of us in the US. 449M in the EU. There is no reason to allow this misfeature to continue to be a thing in our markets. If automakers don’t like those restrictions any one of them can opt to most of the most valuable markets in the world and find their fortunes exclusively in China while their competitors eat their former marketshare.
Forgot one that was mentioned up-thread, which was that even if you don’t pay for the fancy suspension you will still have to pay for fancy suspension parts if they break.
Fantastic point
C and e don’t sound like bad things
At least not bad enough for the company not to do it
All of it is a reason for people to vote not to allow it. This can be accomplished federally or via initiatives in states. If a handful states comprising 30-50% of the pop wont allow it then it will be dead.
Seems like forcing liability would be more successful
More successful or more beneficial?
Forcing the company to be liable for the data they collect would be more likely to stop them from doing it than trying to outlaw them collecting it
No it wouldn’t because poor people can trivially be kept out of court all kinds of ways from binding arbitration to half assed enforcement. As a rule if you want someone to NOT do something you have to tell them they can’t do it!
No it wouldn’t because elected officials don’t represent poor people
But we’re talking about buying new BMWs anyway. Your logic was just too stupid to not laugh at
FUCK these out of control capitalists jesus christ.
You know it’s just a matter of time before this shit starts being applied to budget cars.
…I really hope the tech crowd is working on jailbreaking this garbage.
We try. We also pivot to open source to try and regain control because it’s the only way. We even share our passions with those who ask.
You folks just roll your eyes and put more money on their hands.
This “tech crowd” and “you folks” dichotomy is not helpful at all. Tell people how they can help, volunteer, donate etc, don’t wedge gaps between the same class fighting against the same ruling class. I’m a software engineer. I write open source software. I get that it’s tiring and you can see the worst in people when doing it, but we’re going to have to be better than that if we want to change things.
And for those reading like the top commenter, don’t sit on your hands and wait for “tech folks” to figure stuff out. It’s us vs. corporate greed, not “us hoping the tech folks save us from corporate greed” or “us tech folks being badgered like we should be some saviors against corporate greed.” Write your representatives to tell them this isn’t ok. Be mindful in your selection when you purchase a vehicle. Ask your tech savvy friends and family what you can do to help. You aren’t helpless in this, and as OP said, just sitting and waiting for something to be fixed or changed doesn’t help the overall goal.
I wrote it as a tongue in cheek against the OP that said “…I really hope the tech crowd is working on jailbreaking this garbage”.
Surprise surprise, that comment is sitting with 49 upvotes 1 downvote, mine that you admonish is on 27 upvotes 13 downvotes.
This kind of proves the point. The “tech crowd” doesn’t owe you anything. Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world, you don’t know how much of my personal and professional life I have spent fully on open source.
Get up your feet and talk with your family, representatitives. Legislate this shit away. Nobody accepts food products that dont have a recipe or with unknown ingredients. Nobody accepts engineering projects without plans. Demand open source and interoperability.
dismissing our warnings as some nerd turf wars for decades aint helping anyone either.
no amount of talking to normies will fix this because you would rather listen to the corporations. and this precedes any form of action.
What exactly do you propose the “normies” do? Is there some non-corporation making road-worthy cars? No? Let me guess, you want a family of 5 to bike 2 hours to the nearest school/park/grocery store in the snow on rural roads with no shoulder just to avoid paying a corporation? Take the nonexistent train?
who suggested bikes?
let me just say this: if facebook were known to be doing the shit it does today in 2002, it wouldnt have fucking flied, because normies trusted people more than they did corporations. throw away the notion we are powerless against corporations.
no need to make up that huge strawman when you could have properly read what i bothered to type out.
That would be the ultimate way to stop this. Let them put the hardware in, and then not make a cent off it, because a third party enables it for the customer.
Well done BMW. Anything that leads to more people cycling instead of driving is a good thing in my book.
People won’t switch from driving to cycling over this. They’ll just pick one of the several dozen other car manufacturers.
I suspect most BMW owners won’t care too much. Like they’ll find it annoying but still buy/lease the car anyway.
What if the cycling option is a really REALLY good bike?
If the bike does the biking completely for me, has hvac, reclining seats, can do 65mph down the highway and can take care of my morning wood taking into account remaining travel time, I’d be interested. That indeed would be a really good bike.
Sorry, your bicycle’s gear selector is locked into a single gear until you pay your subscription for the other gears.
Nobody’s gonna abandon cars as a whole over this, the same they wouldn’t abandon bicycles as a whole over some other outrageously monetized luxury feature they could live without.
Fucking LOL’d at this. Genuinely not sure if this is satire.
They tried this with heated seats and no one wanted it, what made them think would we accept this?
German car makers have become such a joke in the last decade…
“We’re pivoting from serving peasants to fleecing rich dumbasses that subscribe and pay monthly fees for features built into the car.”
And they’ll make money doing it. Because there will never be a shortage of people with more money than sense.
eh, rich people car shop as well, and there is plenty of competition in that market. of course some people will still opt for BMW, we just have to hope enough go elsewhere to make them lose marketshare. but… it’s not looking good so far.
Ngl, i don’t see how bmw gets any sales when Mercedes exists. If you are actually rich a Mercedes is almost objectively the better vehicle, if you are just trying to show off the Mercedes is a better status symbol too.
They would make turn signals a subscription service but they won’t ever get any money from that.
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Yes, that’s the joke.
I’d hoped that BMW (and the rest of the automotive industry) would have learned from the subscription heated seats debacle.
Oh well, no Beemers for me.
We already pay shitty spare parts subscription for the shitty cars they make.
BMW dances in bare ass in front of Chinese erect cock.
