I have a few questions on how to best behave to be as welcoming and inclusive as possible without sounding bad. I hope you guys don’t hate me.
I’m just a straight male. Are my pronouns he/him? Is that how I should tell people? Do you actually tell them as you meet them ? Do I have to wait for a certain social cue ?
How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?
And about respecting other people’s pronouns. How do i figure them out ? Is it a big faux pas if I don’t before I know them ? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?
I’ve never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?
I’d love some help with all of this.
deleted by creator
I too, am a straight male. It’s actually pretty easy.
It might be a bit of a faux pas when addressing someone as he/him when they prefer something else. Simply, if the mistake is made, they’ll correct your assumption (I’m sure they get it all the time, it’s not that big of a deal), and tell you their pronouns. Then it’s your task, socially, to respect their wish to be referred to by their pronouns. It might seem awkward to refer to someone directly as “they” or “them”, but it is grammatically correct, it just sounds awkward to our brains because it’s so rarely used as a singular direct pronoun… direct in the way that you’re talking to, or in the presence of that person… but it’s perfectly fine and preferred by your friend/colleague/acquaintance or whatever.
For yourself, if you’re commonly and most comfortably referred to as he/him, then you have two options: 1. ignore it, and people will assume, or 2. put “he/him” in things like your bio/email signature/about me pages and leave it at that. It doesn’t require qualification or context, like “my pronouns are” or something like that, just “he/him” alone in your bio is enough to let people know what you are comfortable with.
Personally, I don’t do anything, I let people assume, because I’m unbothered if someone refers to me as he/him/she/her/they/them. All pronouns for me are fine. I’m most commonly referred to as he/him because it’s the historically “correct” pronouns, but pronouns are more or less irrelevant to me.
And yes, people do, in fact, prefer they/them. I’ve met a few, and it feels awkward at first to say “they”/“them”, but you get used to it.
People who actually care about pronouns will tell you theirs.
Honestly, I think that if I would say “my pronouns are he/him”, people would think that’s a weird thing to say and would think something like “oh, it’s one of those woke people”.
Where I live, the people that tell you about their pronouns are a minority, and they are usually people that need to tell you their pronouns to avoid confusion, or people that are particularly active in the “woke” community.
For 99% of the people you meet, it’s fair to assume pronouns because it’s obvious. And if your assumption was wrong, they can just tell you. No need to get butthurt over it.
Saying “my pronouns are…” without anyone asking for them is just ridiculous in my opinion. Like, what are people going to say 5 years from now? “My name is …, my pronouns are …, my ethnicity is …, I live in … and my favorite color is …”?
What a dumb way to start a conversation. You know, the whole point of a conversation is that you ask and answer questions, or share things you like to share. We don’t need to share everything in the introduction sentence, including pronouns. It’s just pointless most of the time.
To be clear: if anyone wants to tell me their pronouns right away, all good, I won’t dislike you for it. Just don’t expect the same from me, just assume my pronouns and I’ll be happy to correct you on the off chance that you’re wrong.
I agree that it’s weird, but I think sharing pronouns in an introduction is different from sharing ethnicity, place of living, and favorite color.
The latter 3 does not matter in a conversation, but the pronouns are always part of conversations: when you’re speaking about Greg, you don’t repeatedly say their name (“yeah, Greg has came into office half an hour ago, and Greg has been to the fridge, and Greg has prepared Greg’s desktop, Greg is playing on the PlayStation since then. You can find Greg in the game room”) because that’s weird, you instead refer to it in a shorter form after the first time: with pronouns (“yeah, Greg has came into office an hour ago, and he has been to the fridge, and he has prepared his desktop, he is playing on the PlayStation since then. You can find him in the game room”)So my point is that it shouldn’t hurt to also include your pronouns, when it’s not obvious, because they will be used, and it will probably bother you. And we all (should) know that unhappy people won’t be efficient, not just in work but neither in life. Are you a he? You don’t want to be called a she either, right?
Fair point, it doesn’t hurt to include it. But my point is that in most cases it’s irrelevant and it isn’t something everyone has to start doing.
When I go outside and look around me, 99% of the people don’t need to tell me what their pronouns are, because I guess simply guess them with high certainty based on how they look. You might disagree with this if you feel like everyone should be able to choose their own pronouns (which is fine by me), but in reality most people don’t want to tell you their pronouns, they want you to look at them and just know.
But my point is that in most cases it’s irrelevant and it isn’t something everyone has to start doing.
I did not yet see this happening IRL, but I can see that just exclaiming it is not appropriate. Though maybe they honestly just don’t know what better way is there to introduce themselves, and to be clear, I don’t know either.
When I go outside and look around me, 99% of the people don’t need to tell me what their pronouns are, because
Because you won’t have to do anything with them. They don’t tell their name either, because why would they do that, when just passing by on the street?
However at introductions there is a place for the pronouns, however weird it sounds today. I mean, introduction is about letting others know you and your things that you find relatively important.but in reality most people don’t want to tell you their pronouns,
Never said anyone would have to. I would never do that either, because is it obvious. Same for most people, because it is obvious. This is an optional thing, even for non-binary people: only those have to tell it who want to do so.
No one’s expecting that of you dude. The “woke people” aren’t out to get you because you don’t introduce yourself with your pronouns, nor are they pushing for that ridiculous future hypothetical you set up. They’re just looking to help others get by. No need to be so touchy about it.
I think I know what he means. It’s perfectly acceptable to just use him or her for 99.999% of people, and if you just so happen to meet one of the 0.001% of people that goes out of their way to draw attention to themselves by being offended, they’re probably not worth wasting oxygen on lol
Saying “my pronouns are…” without anyone asking for them is just ridiculous in my opinion.
What a dumb way to start a conversation.
Between those statements and so much concern about seeming “woke”, I don’t think they’re only worried about the “0.001%” here.
Yeah true, but if you start a conversation with “my pronouns are…”, the vast majority of people will assume you’re incredibly self-centred, let’s be honest here. Not a great way to start a conversation
So we’ve gone from “0.001% get offended about pronouns” to “It’s self centered (ie ‘wrong’) to introduce yourself with pronouns.” Maybe just let people engage with the world in the way that best suits them? Sometimes that includes prefacing an introduction with pronouns to head off any mistakes or discomfort. These people are just trying to get by. Try not to be so judgemental.
While I personally wouldn’t go as far as to call people self-centered, I do think Mr Blott has a point, a lot of people may think they are self-centered for immediately declaring their pronouns (or anything else other than your name for that matter).
Anyway, that wasn’t what I was trying to say. All I wanted to say is that I don’t think that announcing your pronouns is something that will be or should be normalized, since it’s pointless for the vast majority of people. I do understand why some people would prefer to do this anyway to avoid the awkward situations like “ahem, actually it’s… euuh… he, not she”, and I don’t have a problem with that.
and I don’t have a problem with that.
You both very clearly do. Stuff like calling things pointless and ridiculous, advocating for the “vast majority” or “99.999%” of people? That only serves to isolate and "other"ize. It’s hurtful and dismissive of real people. Following it up with “but people can do what they want” doesn’t erase what you say. Might as well start it off with “No offense, but…”
If you are truly trying to be kind and accepting here, maybe take some time to self reflect on how you view and talk about these things and what’s behind that.
Pronouns are just your preference for what you should be referred to. If you don’t provide them people will assume. The logic is that if only people who want to use specific pronouns suggest them, you are essentially outing yourself so even if you associate with your birth pronouns, it’s polite to present them so it’s less awkward for others.
The actual use is more awkward. The expected use is that you use it when the person in question is discussed but a pronoun isn’t really used unless that person is not around so again it seems to just be a polite way to present yourself.
For added context a good use case of announcing pronouns would be a research paper where someone would be described to another person Edit: Ive been made aware about another obvious use case. Talking to people online where you might not have a way to identify any other way
Cis allies usually put pronouns in their bios to show support and normalize the act itself of specifying then online. IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.
Just whenever you meet someone and they tell you to talk to them in a specific way, just do it and respect their pronouns. Its easy. Most people dont care if you get it wrong the first times as long as you acknowledge your mistake and correct yourself, your brain will get used to it and you will not make the mistake later. That’s the different between someone who is learning and an idiot purposefully misgendering someone.
BTW if you arent sure about someone elses pronouns, just ask them. Easy.
Cool thanks. I just put mine up in my bio. Hopefully in the right spot.
Your first sentence is a really good point. Many cis-gendered people thing it’s pointless to add their pronouns in their email/bio, but it helps to not out those who are trans. If everyone/most people state their pronouns then it makes it harder to unnecessarily identify those who are trans.
IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.
I disagree with this. It’s better not to assume or encourage people to assume pronouns. It’s better to use they/them when you’re not sure. Most of the time you can learn people’s pronouns contextually, by hearing how other people refer to them.
Otherwise, it’s better to use they/them unless you have evidence otherwise. Looks isn’t evidence. It’s not the worst thing to assume once and be wrong, but if you’re aiming for inclusivity it’s better to not assume
Yeah. Good point. But I think OP shouldn’t worry about specifying his pronouns IRL, but what you say is a good general approach.
Watch Princess Bride. Perfect that “as you wish”. With genuine sincerity.
Perfect. You’ve had a fun movie experience (Inconceivable!) and you now know the perfect way to respond to someone who has asked you or corrected you regarding pronouns.
Pronouns are largely used to refer to people in the third person. As such I will never declare my pronouns because they aren’t for me to use, they’re for other people to use to refer to me. As such they should use whatever pronouns deliver maximal clarity for the listener.
I will respect others’ pronoun preferences because I’m not an asshole, but when people start trying to tell me that I’m being bigoted by not stating my own pronouns, they can fuck off.
Are my pronouns he/him?
Probably. Your pronouns are what you want them to be. If someone says “I saw shapis at the park yesterday, but he looked busy so I didn’t say hi to him,” are he and him what you want in those positions?
(I’m going to assume you’re a he/him for the rest of this, but if you want something else let me know and I’ll edit the post.)
Is that how I should tell people?
Yeah, you’d say “my pronouns are he/him.”
Do you actually tell them as you meet them? Do I have to wait for a certain social cue?
In person, it comes up in group meetings where people are making an effort to be inclusive, typically gender diverse or far left crowds. Someone will mention it, or people will just start doing it. You don’t have to be the first person to start adding pronouns. But if you’re in a crowd with someone you know would appreciate it, it’d be nice to start it on your own (without singling them out).
The most awkward option is that you introduce yourself without pronouns, then it goes around the room and people start; in that case just pipe up and say yours are he/him.
How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?
Having it in your profile online is a good idea. Online it’s way more important, since it also combats “there are no girls on the internet.”
And about respecting other people’s pronouns. How do i figure them out? Is it a big faux pas if I don’t before I know them? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?
If someone has a gender presentation you can’t figure out, ask. If you’re pretty sure, guess. It’s a minor faux pas to get it wrong, but it’s within the realm of the inevitable awkwardness of human interaction, just say sorry once, correct yourself, and move on. Think of it as being as rude as accidentally stepping on someone’s foot. (Think about how rude that’d be if you kept doing it though.)
I’ve never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?
It is very rare, but they’re out there. People with really unconventional pronouns (I’ve met a fae/faer) are going to understand if you have to slow down when talking about them. Generally they’re chosen by people whose gender identity is nonconventional enough that they’re willing to put up with the hassle to get something that feels more right to them.
he and him what you want in those positions?
I had never stopped to think about this. I guess the answer in my partícular case is I literally don’t care which ones they use. Hm. Not sure what that means.
Thank you for the detailed comment.
in my partícular case is I literally don’t care which ones they use. Hm. Not sure what that means.
Some people don’t have internal gender feelings and just go with whatever they were assigned at birth out of convenience. I actually started that way and slowly drifted to feeling like my assigned gender much later in life.
Other times, someone realizing that is the first sign they’re trans. If you ask a group of trans people, that’ll probably be some of their origin stories. But I don’t think it’s actually that common overall (trans people are rare!). So what I’d recommend to you, and the other five people reading this that identify with your statement, is that you all sit down and think about your gender feelings a bit, so the trans one can get on with her life.
But anyway, pronouns options for the “assigned male but I don’t care” crowd are he/him, he/them, they/them, he/him/any, and any. For that last one, in a crowd where people are saying pronouns, you’d just say “any pronouns are fine”. (Long time hexbears know I used to rock the he/him/any.)
seconding this. i started as not caring. realised im non-binary but still don’t really care. pronouns don’t really bother me, as for me, how other people view and refer to me doesn’t really affect my internal feelings on my gender. obviously this isn’t the case for all trans people, some definitely want to be seen and referred to as their self-id gender.
I am a straight male
Being straight doesn’t impact what your pronouns are! Your gender, whether you are cis, non-binary, trans, or any other gender identity is what determines these pronouns.
are my pronouns he/him?
Probably but thats up to you. Usually pronouns are given in that order as a matter of standardisation for understanding where they go in a sentence. Ie “He is going to the store” or “it all comes down his choice.” Obviously this leaves out some other gendered standard pronouns like formal Sirs and Ma’ams but for most conversation knowing she/her or they/them gets you most of the way there. For standard ones it might be intuitive but for people with neo-pronouns it helps a lot.
do you tell people when you meet them?
Sometimes. I try to do it more these days as a matter of course but usually I will give them when I’m in an environment where some people do and don’t where no one does. They are in my email signatures and real social media bios though.
Online rules
At least on your profile somewhere. I like Hexbear’s “no exceptions they will be in your name” policy, its better for uptake and helps people feel included.
figuring out others
If it isn’t clear you could always ask. If you aren’t a dick about it then it’s usually fine. If you get corrected though the most respectful thing you could do is just say sorry and use the right ones from that point on.
non conventional pronouns
Yes people do use them, if you are in places that queer people go to or feel comfortable you are more likely to meet someone with them. I would argue its more polite to refer to them as neo pronouns but I also have boring ones so its not really my place to say. If you look around hexbear there are a couple of frequent posters with neo pronouns and I’ve known a few people irl to use neo pronouns as well.
Getting someone’s pronouns wrong once really isn’t too big of a deal. What’s more important is how you react to being corrected and using what they ask you to going forward.
I still don’t know a good way to ask people their pronouns. Or rather I haven’t had to do it often so I don’t have much practice still so I still feel weird. Sometimes I get nervous that asking someone their pronouns might even make them feel like they don’t pass as the gender they want to present as. I’ve talked about this with people and the advice I’ve been given is that the best way to do it is to introduce yourself with your own pronouns. I still haven’t really had much opportunity to do it so not sure how to make it flow conversationally but the idea is that you’re giving everyone the opportunity to do the same plus it lets them know that you won’t react poorly to hearing someone tell you their pronouns.
I’ve really only met one person who prefers they/them and a couple of she/they folks. The trans people I have met all pass well enough in my brain that I don’t have to consciously try to use the correct pronoun. It just takes some effort to get used to.
Back in, say, 2016 or so there was a meme about “did you just assume my gender?” It was always a caricature and it seems like most people either want you to assume it or are okay if you get it wrong so long as you correct yourself once they correct you.
I still don’t know a good way to ask people their pronouns.
in-person you can do this by offering yours when introduced. this protects binary trans people trying to use cultural indicators of gender from some abuse and normalizes the practice for non-conforming people, nicely resolving the competing accessibility needs of people trying to use existing gender norms and people outside them.
online you can ask your admin to do what hexbear does with display names and ban anyone being shitty about it.
I think at some point language as a whole will shift. Most languages have had a concept of masculine/feminine and differentiating between genders for most if not all of their history. This seems pretty weird as a concept in modern times since it serves no real benefit. If we were to develop a language from scratch today I don’t think it would have such features.
Its going to take a pretty long time (hundreds of years) but language is constantly evolving. I think it will get there. In the meantime things are going to remain at least a little confusing.
I have a few transgender friends and its still a bit if a mental hurdle to see them as who they want to be identified as sometimes. I sometimes slip up and will call them by their old name or use the wrong pronoun. It’s never intentional of course, but sometimes my mental auto-correct isn’t working at full capacity. If I meet the person post-transition then its never really a problem as I always see them as that gender.
deleted by creator
If I’ve never heard anyone else use a specific pronoun for someone new or I otherwise don’t know, I try to use they/them. Otherwise I use what others do.
And if someone does let you know that a person/themselves prefer a specific one, always say thanks (you can’t be sorry for something you didn’t know!) and do your best to remember for next time.
I also try to use genderless terms like “folks” or just “everyone” instead of “guys”
Yes, your pronouns are he/him :)
Generally, people are pretty chill about it. If you are unsure how to refer to someone, you can always just call them by their first name or something else (the barista at the front counter, the person in the yellow sweater, etc!)
I wouldn’t overthink it, most people are totally cool if you get it wrong, especially if you show a willingness to get it right from then on. Queer people just wanna be treated like everyone else :)
-queer guy living in the gay district
