- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
You must log in or register to comment.
The most expected outcome of the expedition.
Exactly the kind of thing Israel would do. Very consistent and predictable of them.
As an aside- does the article’s source (thecanary.co) have anything to do with Canary Mission? I would assume not, based on the content, but what’s with the common bird theme?
Oh, I see. Thanks.
For those of you doubting the claims for lack of evidence, stating that you’ll “wait for the facts” or evidence before allowing yourslf to be outraged—
Where is your outrage for the countless other people who were there who personally testified to being beaten, abused, and paraded around like trophies?
There are already multiple interviews with Chris Smalls, a black American labor organizer, who directly confirmed that he had been beaten, choked, packed like a sardine into a small cell, sleep deprived, strip searched, and completely brutalized by the Israeli navy and prison system.
Ask yourself—why does this need to have happened to the appropriately aged, white, European female on a 4k, live streamed or recorded feed with corroborating testimony by the Israelis and the national newspapers of the country of origin of the supposed victim—why is that the bar you’ve set for credulity?
What does that say about you or your reaction to the situation?
Wake. Up.
Fuck the details, fuck the squabbling over what constitutes “roughness” versus physical assault. Fuck the inclination to want to hear “the other side” of the story. Things are going horribly wrong in Israel/Palestine—in a place that we’ve all been told over and over is supposed to be demonstrably above reproach. If even half these claims are true—if even a single one of them is true—what GOOD is it preserving the supposed beacon of democracy in the middle east when they treat foreigners this way?
Even if you think these activists are mentally unwell, or menaces, or being performative, or just doing this for “selfies”—so what? We all know these activists are obviously not terrorists and at least some of them genuinely believe what they are doing. None of this justifies their treatment. Nothing justifies the richest and proudest countries on earth—however much you might agree with that claim—what GOOD is that if our prisons condemn people to absolute squalor and abandonment to the whims of their guards?
HOW is this any different from the indignity camps? These peoples possessions were seized as trophies , their clothes taken, their bodies crammed together like chattel. Do there need to be ovens for there to be discernable lines? Must you feel the radiant heat on your own brows before you’ll indulge the sensation that something isn’t right here?
Wake. Up.
Where is the outrage over the hostages Hamas has taken and have beaten and raped? If you’re outraged over unconfirmed reports of a person being treated this way, shouldn’t you also be outraged that Hamas does these things? Or is acceptable to treat people of certain ethnicities in this way?
I dont have words for how stupid your take is. Like I can’t think of a way to describe it you, because this is so intellectually shallow that it would take to long to even get you to understand that two things can be true at the same time.
Here’s a few words for their post that you can borrow: whataboutism, propaganda, tu quoque, bad faith.
Waiting for the facts is a pretty sensible move in most situations.
This is OLD news, their genociding has been going-on for years, now.
“comically”, the Jewish book of Jeremiah, & the Jewish book of Isaiah, both speak of Israel turning anti-God, & then getting G-D’s wrath torching it…
IF that biblical-rule still holds, THEN Netanyahu’s “Israel” is getting torched, soon.
Simply wait & see: if that torching does happen, then their God made it happen, according to their scripture, right?
Here’s facts, for the ideological to ignore/deny: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1422308/palestinian-territories-israel-number-fatalities-and-injuries-caused-by-the-israel-and-hamas-war/
Israeli identity is rooted on genociding/exterminating multiple-nations, thousands of years ago:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+20%3A17&version=CJB orders the EXTERMINATION of 6 nations, & another of their books identifies that it was 7 exterminations, not 6, they were to enforce.
Genociding/exterminating/holocausting isn’t a new behavior for Israel.
Doing it in the name of “zionism” is new, but genociding isn’t new.
I’d never have guessed this, having grown-up in 2 religions: medical-science & Catholicism,
but the book “The Alphabet Versus the Goddess” by Leonard Shlain identified that the original holocausting was done by the Jews, & I went & checked in the bible, & yep… there it was…
what Shlain didn’t notice, probably because of being Jewish, was that the Catholic Inquisitors were Latin-educated, which also corroborates his point that getting populations to be left-hemisphere-dominant forces ideological-rabies…
What is the root-cause, though? Want experience-induced-undersanding which vastens one’s mind?
Work-through, not-merely-read, it is the DOing which produces the experience-of-sentience-transformation, Betty Edwards’ “Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, the 4th, Definitive Edition”, but use charcoals, which makes it much easier to experience the hemisphere-dominance-shift…
See this gallery?
https://www.drawright.com/before-after
That SHOWS the difference-in-MIND of hemisphere-dominance-shift: it is EVIDENCE.
Being an autistic blockhead, it took me 3y, not 5d, to experience that shift, because fighting the woodenness-of-my-brain made me want to scream…
Anyways, all who pretend that “there is no evidence for hemisphere-dominance-shift”, are people who won’t do the experiment, so … they can shove their ideology … wherever their egos are, to keep their egos company.
: p
Ideology, specifically symbol-anchored ideology, is prone to rabies/genociding, exactly as Shlain identified, throughout human history.
R-Mind isn’t prone to rabies/genociding.
Exactly as Marshall McLuhan, the ultra-genius who forsaw telework around 1953, it isn’t possible for people who grew-up literate to understand what illiterate-culture’s story-river sentience is, or means…
His stupendous insight is embodied in “The Medium Is The mAssage”, strange-capitalization is mine, but the spelling is his!
The medium of electric-technology, as he called it, is modular, & it forms minds into modularity!
The medium of story-river isn’t modular, & forms minds into holding-onto eternal story-river, because that’s their greatest treasure: it is who they are that they are holding-onto!
There’s no way to imagine being in sooo-different a kind of sentience.
Precisely the same impossibility-of-understanding-the-difference is true, with hemisphere-dominance-shift: it isn’t possible to imagine within-1-sentience-kind, what any other-sentience-kind means/is/feels-like!
Hofstadter’s “Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid” was also on this single point, from a totally-different angle:
Formal-systems, ideologies, prejudices, & “religions”, all are AXIOM-BASED knowing: and evidence is powerless to falsify them!
One has to choose between 2 mutually exclusive knowing-paradigms: self-consistency/axiom-based, … XOR … completeness/universe-centered.
Godel’s Theorem of Incompleteness mathematically proved that self-consistency CANNOT be complete-knowing of universe!
Anyways, back to sentiences:
IF one never even experiences one’s own brain’s hemisphere-dominance-shift, THEN one dies ignorant of AN ENTIRE DIMENSION of one’s own sentience!
The fact that alphabetic-language/left-hemisphere-polarization also consistently produces more genociding, builds on that as evidence that limiting ourselves to a specific-subset-of-our-potential creates distorted-psyche… & distorted-behavior/society.
I ask everyone, as Betty Edwards asked everyone, please DO THE EXPERIMENT, & EXPERIENCE the resultant sentience-shift, your own self, & KNOW what that sentience-shift feels-like,
& when one does, THEN Shlain’s book turns into fluorescent, & screaming, warning, about the consequences of blocking-out the other-half of our brains.
People who experience both kinds of sentience, regularly, don’t do what the ideologues are doing with our world!
That the mode-of-mind that the polarized-in-symbols people are demonstrating, with its ideological-genociding, is a distortion.
It is a mind-distortion that WE have been educated into!
Cut the root of the distortion, by directly-experiencing it oneself!
Here: I’ll give you the links to the books, themselves… ( none of these are “affiliate” links: machiavellianism-narcissism can go eat rocks : )
https://www.drawright.com/bettys-books https://www.drawright.com/try-an-exercise https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/drawing-on-the-right-side-of-the-brain https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/the-alphabet-versus-the-goddess-the-conflict-between-word-and-image No ebook version for McLuhan's stunningly-important insight, so here's the paperback: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=marshall+mcluhan+medium+massage ditto for GEB: https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/( for both the paperbacks, I read the original edition, decades ago, so I hope that you’re getting a version that hasn’t pruned-out any of the important stuff! GEB, the 2nd edition adds an explanatory preface, so that’s the only change, but for McLuhan’s, I’ve no idea what changed between editions )
Anyways, genociders gaslighting about what they’re doing, as Russia has been demonstrating, & Israel has been demonstrating, & as the US of A will shortly be more-completely-demonstrating, once Trump stops vascillating in his nature/unconscious-mind, & becomes like Putin & Netanyahu completely ( might take only weeks/months, now, for that transformation to complete ) is well-established and normal among our world’s left-hemisphere-polarized minds,
AND evidence showing what’s actuality, is abundant, including before-after video of Palestinian cities.
Reject evidence if you want, & pretend that no evidence counts unless it is … authorized by the gaslighters who’re doing the genociding, if that’s what “standard” you hold to be true:
I’ve encountered enough people who do that that now I know it’s a real thing…
I’ve also encountered the ones who insist that unless Israel authorizes Palestinian-deaths to be actual, they they’re only lies/delusions made-up to falsely-accuse Israel.
Sorry, but the photographic & video-evidence has been falsifying that gaslighting all along, & I’m not obedient to such evil-machiavellianism, anymore: age has benefits, including spine-produced-by-cynicism.
_ /\ _
Friend even the title has this as breaking news
You completely misunderstood my point or have lead clogging your ears.
How many facts are enough facts? Mm? All the facts? Not a single fact missing, not a single rock left unturned before reaching a conclusion?
At what angle does the sun have to reach before you conclude it’s daytime? Do you need it to reach its peak, at noon, and feel the warmth on your skin? Does it need to completely dip below the horizon for you to concede a day has passed? Of course, at that point you’ll surely say, “Ah ha! See! The sun is no longer in the sky and so it is not daytime!”
It seems that you believe conclusions only arrive from deduction. That’s a cowardly way of rolling about in this world, since all your conclusions must be guaranteed rather than reasoned through logical inference.
“Sensible”—ha! Thinking by “sense” alone squanders the powers of reason wherein conclusions may be formed at the risk of not yet being fully grounded in immediate observation, which is how I can confidently infer—despite the thorough stone turning upon which you’d undoubtedly insist—that you are not a sex-haver.
I’d personally prefer at least some facts about the case in question. But the line is different for everyone
At this point in time everything Israel and Netanyahu do is sus, so ‘waiting for the facts’ is just an excuse to do nothing.
So let’s spread potential misinformation instead! Banzai!
(There’s enough evidence of Netanyhau and Israel’s atrocities not to have to potentially make shit up.)
For some, I guess it could be. I just personally prefer for more concrete info for most stuff.
Then why even comment? Your comment brings zero value
Since you are not waiting. What are you doing?
Shaming others on social media, of course. How very brave and noble of them!
Mental masturbation is it? Let me assure you that you can’t shame these people. They have none along with no empathy.
Agreed, or at least wait for Greta to tell us herself.
Almost certainly an AI generated response. opinion disregarded
This whole flotilla thing was a propganda mission (everyone knew the boats were never going to get to Gaza), those participating are going to say anything to promote anti-Israel propaganda.
Geta Thunberg is 22 years old, she’s an adult. The “little Greta” bullshit is really grating. To be clear no one (whether an adult or a child) should be treated in the ways that have been alleged (which is how Hamas treats their prisoners, where’s the outrage over that?) but come on people, stop playing it up like Thunberg is a child. It just makes it obvious that she’s being used as a prop in their propaganda.
“anti-Israel propaganda” ?
🤣😹😝😆🫠🤣🙃😸🤣
All the “propaganda” is coming from Israel, and it isn’t anti-Israel.
Geta Thunberg is 22 years old, she’s an adult. The “little Greta” bullshit is really grating.
I remember when i was 22 years old. i was basically a teenager with adult responsibility.
which is how Hamas treats their prisoners, where’s the outrage over that
We expect more from a country that is supposed to be a western style liberal democracy.
If it was a propaganda mission why did Israel not just let them arrive and give aid to Gaza? The outrage of Hamas treating its prisoners how Israel treats their? It has been everywhere, so much so Israeli bootlickers like you use it as an excuse for genocide.
Because it’s a warzone and not a safe place for civilians. They’ve made efforts to get civilians out of areas where there’s heavy fighting to parts of Gaza where food and aid can be distributed. There’s plenty of food and aid, the problem isn’t lack of aid, the problem is distributing it in the middle of a war. This is exceedingly difficult because of Hamas Nakba propaganda threats of violence to prevent civilians from leaving areas where there’s heavy fighting. Obviously Hamas wouldn’t survive very long if they didn’t have their human shields. You could walk from on end of the Gaza strip to the other in about 8 hours, so why is it a problem for civilians to get out of the parts of Gaza where there’s heavy fighting? Because nothing is easy in a war.
So no it’s not “let’s just rock up to Gaza with a bunch of food, problem solved!” It’s a war, you’re either going to be adding more food to a pile in a place where people aren’t going to get it, or there’s a high probability you’ll be killed because you’re in a place where there’s heavy fighting going on. This isn’t CoD game where devs made it impossible to kill civilians unless you install an “I’m an evil monster” mod that allows you to do so. Bullets, shells, missiles, drones going every which way. Bullet from an IDF misses it’s target it might hit you and you’re dead. Also a bullet from Hamas might miss it’s target and hit you and you’re dead. Hamas dresses like civilians (except when there’s a ceasefire, then they have no problem finding their uniforms) so an 18 year old in a firefight might think you’re the Hamas guy that was just shooting at him and you’re dead because you happened to be wearing the same clothes as a Hamas guy. This is a war against Hamas, an adversary that will use your death to further their propaganda, so they aren’t going to keep you safe (more the opposite) in the places they operate and those are the places where the food is needed.
So yeah, it was a propaganda mission designed to get everyone detained by the IDF so they could produce more propaganda. It was never about getting food to Palestinians.
Why would you think Israel would want there to be more civilians in a warzone? Why would you want more civilians in a warzone? There’s a lot of ghouls that actually want Greta Thunberg to get killed by the IDF since it would be a big boost to their propaganda. Are you one of these ghouls?
Israel has apparently said this in response to the situation:
I don’t see how that’s consistent with them murdering civilians in Gaza.
Because they don’t see civilians in Gaza as people.
They literally call Palestinians (not Hamas, Palestinians) “human animals” and “vermin”, just like the NAZIs used to literally say that Jews and Roma were “subhuman” and “vermin”.
Religion is an excuse for violence. Prove me wrong.
Religion is just another excuse for violence.
The NAZIs put the Roma People in the same category as Jews - so, to be exterminated as an ethnicity (“curiously” there are no Oscar Winning films about the plight of the Roma People, nor has Germany tried to make amends with them) - and yet they tend to be Christians, same as the NAZIs.
Ethno-Fascists regimes are dominated by Psychopaths and Sociopaths, and these people don’t care about Religion beyond it’s immense utility as a tool to manipulate other people.
There is an Oscar winning film that depicts (in part) the Romani inclusion in the Holocaust: Son of Saul (2015).. The lead actor is Romanian (which, I know is not the same) who plays a Jewish main character, but the film itself directly contains scenes of the Sinti and Roma inclusion in the camps.
There are also several other good films that depict the Romani aspect of the Holocaust—even one whose name quite literally the same point you (correctly) made: A People Uncounted (2011).
Some others:
- And the Violins Stopped Playing (1988)
- Korkoro (2009)
Thank you for that information: I wasn’t aware of those.
It’s a small list (considering its for the whole World) compared to the list of films about the plight of Jews during the Holocaust, and of course not a single one of them seems to have come out of Hollywood, but still, it’s better than nothing.
Maybe religions are an excuse for trying to achieve certain political goals. E.g. a Christian in the USA might say “we have to ban abortion because God says abortion is wrong”. And a settler Jew in Israel might say “we have to occupy the West Bank because God says that land belongs to Jews”. And a conservative Muslim might say “women should not be allowed to drive because God says so”.
Always has been.
Bruh, reminds me of the stories I heard about ww2 when the imperial japanese army invaded my homeland China, they would force people to kneel and sing the japanese national anthem under the threat of execution if people didn’t comply. Its so evil disgusting villainy.
The irony (for anyone not clear on it or not catching it) is that the Israeli military forced the captives to wrap themselves in the flag of Israel—which prominently features the star of David—so that soldiers could take pictures of them that could be circulated to humiliate the activists.
Where else have we heard of people being forced to wear the star of David so that everyone could point and laugh and humiliated them?
Israeli soldiers are so eager to “tea bag” their enemies with their own flag that they’re unable to see the irony.
It’s a sad case of “hurt people hurt people”.
I mean no offense on the whole, but its quite ironic given the reports on how they treat Uyghur folks.
…Kinda like Israel’s irony here. And the US, and, you know, a whole lot of countries right now. Trauma tends to get passed down, it seems.
This is another pivotal moment. WE can speak out and make our elected officials (wherever we are in the world) KNOW that their political careers and their parties future depends upon their actions.
You do not govern their careers. They know it and they do not care
That commenter said “we”, not “I”.
Are you saying that we—collectively—don’t bear any democratic responsibility for the people that we elect to office? Or are you cynically implying that the original poster has no power over the situation?
I don’t get the sense that you’re trying to attack that person, but what do you gain from public displays of cynicism to remind people that they are powerless?
If nothing then please reconsider. 🙁
Are you saying that we—collectively—don’t bear any democratic responsibility for the people that we elect to office?
This. Democracy is no more
Only because we have abdicated our power. We can take it back.
Yes, but you and I have to organize in our communities where we live to make that happen.
You only ever had the illusion of power. Power resides with capital, and as long as capitalists are allowed sole ownership over the means of production, the people will only ever be able to expend titanic effort gathering enough power to gain a temporary reform.
Power resides with capital,
No it doesn’t, that’s just propaganda to make us feel weak and controlled. If capital was all it took, then the American Revolution and the French Revolution would have been won by those with the most money, along with many other insurgencies throughout history.
There are many, many examples where those with money lost their power to those without.
Both the American and French revolutions were bourgeoise capitalist revolutions… and neither led to significant gains of power for the people of the nations, just for the bourgeoisie who led the revolutions.
You do not govern their careers. They know it and they do not care
Breaking: terrorists behave like terrorists
Idk why this is treated as though its so inconceivable. Greta is hated by conservatives around the world. Most countries have already condemned Israel. They only care what Trump’s regime thinks. Their prisons are notorious centers of physical emotional and sexual torture. This is relatively mild treatment in comparison to many of the accounts I’ve read. It’s still awful, but if they were going to invent a story about how vile the Israeli prison guards were, this wouldnt be noteworthy in any way. Barely even scratches the surface of the things that happen in those prisons.
And Greta isn’t the only person claiming that they did awful, abusive, hateful things. Chris Smalls got it, too.
Chris Smalls gave a chilling interview with Amy Goodman where he basically said that the Israelis treated him worse than he’s been treated in his entire life as a black man in America. That’s saying a lot.
The full interview.
Presumably because anyone with half a brain would realize that she should have gotten a far more diplomatic treatment regardless of how much of a genocidal asshole they were. The fact that she is getting treated this way shows how far Israel has devolved to and how much more people people should be protesting any interaction with the country.
Unfortunately, it isn’t the only Middle East country who behaves like shit, whom people in other countries have protested, and whom their governments don’t care. But at least the fiction of what Israel was trying to project itself as has toppled considerably.
Of course she deserved better treatment. So did Sophie Scholl. It’s just very odd to act like this is not a believable thing that Israel, famed mass murderers of children, would do.
Israel hasn’t devolved, the state was founded on acts of colonialist genocide. This is what the state of Israel has always been.
At the same time, she is also a public figure. If they had treated her well, they would have less of a leg to stand on. Whereas mistreating her just raises the question that if they are treating a relatively known public figure in that way, what happens to the less-known people, who don’t have as much of a platform to speak out on.
English really needs to stop calling the right wing “conservatives”. We don’t call them that in other languages, and they literally don’t try to conserve things, but instead always seek to destroy.
I prefer “reactionary,” because it accurately describes their political philosophy and tactics.
Also, it really pisses them off.
Not all the right wing is conservative of course and you are right about it, but you are wrong about the meaning of conservative, being a conservative mean those who in politics uphold the value of tradition, oppose any progressive ideology, and aim to preserve traditional social and political structures
At their core, Conservatives are cowards, afraid of EVERYTHING: Democrats, Liberals, Minorities, other religions, other countries, poor people, women, women’s private parts, gays, and anyone else who wants society to improve their lives.
Conservatives are fully satisfied with the way things are, and are terrified that any changes in society would be at the expense of the superior situation that they have created for themselves over centuries.
Their overwhelming need for control over all else has allowed corruption in every form to take root, and they feel far less need to end that, than their need to punish their perceived enemies.
So the result is the MAGA Party, whose primary function is to support the concepts of greed, treason, racism, corruption, incompetence, ignorance, intolerance, and pedophilia.
This is a terribly written comment… There is a better way to say what you’re trying to say. I think. I’m not 100% on what your point really is.
Their point is right there taking up half the comment:
being a conservative mean those who in politics uphold the value of tradition, oppose any progressive ideology, and aim to preserve traditional social and political structures
In other words, they’re “conserving” traditional values.
However this isn’t really true, and @Lumisal@lemmy.world is correct that this isn’t really what they’re doing. It’s how they think they’re behaving, but they have a distorted view on history and see it through rose tinted glasses, often trying not to conserve but to “restore” society to some half-cocked version that never really existed.
Absolutely true, but all of that is just the marching orders from the leadership to keep the rubes occupied and distracted, while they fulfill whatever personal agendas they have, mostly stealing as much as possible, but also committing treason, getting their rocks off abusing people, and kissing their Fuhrer’s stinky ass.
They abused her less than some other people so it is ok. What kind of dumb logic is that?
Where did i say it was okay? It is abhorrent. I said that if they were going to invent a story about her graphic torture, this abuse is comparatively minor compared with other accounts from Israeli prisons.
She’s still a little kid. They made her suffer.
I think that’s needlessly infantilizing her. She’s 22. She’s not a “little kid”. I think she’s old enough for her opinions to carry weight, so how is she a “little kid”?
Yes, that’s the real issue with what happened. One person’s view of a 22 year old being a kid is deffo the issue here…
Of all the horrible things in the article to pick up on you’ve deffo picked up on the very worst part.Also, fucks sake.
I’m sorry, I just think that the zionist actions are bad by default but news articles shouldn’t minimize the people that defy them?
There’s 150 comments in this one post, having a couple about this one thing - which I also thought was off - is fine and good.
It’s ok for people to point out bad things in something you agree with overall.
I absolutely think of 22 as a little kid, but I was there when the last Woolly Mammoth died, so it’s somewhat relative.
Idk, to me “little kid” means “not in school yet”. It’s the “little” that makes the difference, compared to just calling someone a kid or kiddo.
I’m with you. Little kids are like infants and toddlers and shit. Not a 22 year old adult woman.
Well someone who is above 40 will probably think of her as a little kid while someone who 28 for example will probably think that they are close in age. Though this doesn’t matter no one deserves to be treated like this regardless of age.
The youth should have their opinions respected too.
I’m not going to take political opinions from a 3 year old, which is about what I’m thinking when someone says “little kid”. Teenagers, like she was when she got famous, can have enough context about the world that their opinions, particularly about things like sustainability, equality, etc, are valid.
I mean, I feel you, I remember aggroing over verbiage like that when I was younger, but as I am now approaching my upper 30s, I find myself referring to basically 25 yos and under as ‘kids’, its not necesarrily always meant in a demeaning, infantilzing way, can be meant more in the sense of…
… ‘has their whole life ahead of them still, it shouldn’t be marred or maimed or traumatized this early’ /
/ ‘they are adults technically yes, but they have far less experience than most other adults’ /
/ ‘they are too young to be beset by such cruelty and hardship, there should be other adults being better adults such that these awful things do not happen.’
I guess what I am trying to say is it becomes a kind of genuine, broad protective connotation, not trying to be belittling, moreso a lament that the world has failed.
Maybe call it a bungled attempt at intergenerational solidarity.
The thing is, she wasn’t just called a kid, but a “little kid”.
Sure, I’d call early 20s kids too. Hell, I’m a kid, I’m only turning 30 this year. But I wouldn’t call someone a “little kid” once they hit their teenage years. The “little” is what makes the difference in tone. Could’ve said “she’s just a kid” and it would’ve been a believable attempt at intergenerational solidarity.
Keep in mind that we’re talking about a translation here. The phrase quoted might not have the same connotations in Turkish as it does in English.
Oh shit I didn’t ever clock that, yeah, yeah this kind of slight difference in phrasing between acceptable and unnaceptable stuff gets a million times more confusing when you are literally moving between languages.
Great example of that: Why are there so many different Bible translations and why do so many people argue about which one is better?
Depends on how old the person saying that. I’m only in my late 30’s and anyone in their early 20’s does feel like a kid. Yes, 22 is an adult, but you’ve barely just scratched the surface of life experiences.
I agree. There are also a lot of older people on the flotilla and Greta’s age and mannerism could easily lead someone to refer to her in this framing. There are probably people on those boats who have grandkids her age and absolutely have kids her age or older.
I feel that anyone in their 30s is a child.
You’ve only had 15 years at being an adult what would you know
So perspective does matter when understanding utterings in their context!
Thing is, the older people get, the more selfish they seem to get too. The entire world burning down in 10 years doesn’t matter if you’re 98. So more life experience isn’t automatically more credible.
What do you mean it’s not 2015??? /s
Israel is a fucking terrorist country. IDF is a new SS. They are new Nazi.
They will never live this down either. Netanyahu’s government has destroyed Israeli reputation for decades to come.
“Never again” meant “Never again to us” for the ZioNazis.
While I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, it’s amazing how self-destructive this is. Greta is an internationally famous activist. Flagrantly violating and abusing a person with world renown - along with dozens of other activists - is a radically stupid way to hasten international isolation.
It is well known by most in Israel that the country simply cannot function in isolation. It will lead to collapse. In this, they are giving the flotilla far more power to eventually overthrow the ruling regime.
They just assume Uncle Sam will bail them out, no matter what. They are not wrong, much to the frustration of a large portion of the US population.
The Americans are not the reliable partner they used to be.
Reliable enough, unfortunately.
I actually don’t think that’s true. One of the rare bright spots in Trump’s generally unbroken record of catastrophe is that he is so unpredictable, and generally gives so little of a shit what happens to anyone outside himself, that the chances of Israel suffering some kind of great consequence and the US not bailing them out as we always do are greatly increased right now I think.
Also, yes, I think this is possibly the greatest fuckup Israel could possibly have committed right now. It may be what finally turns the tide against them, after so many decades of nothing. Outside of literally nuking Gaza or Iran or something, I honestly can’t think of anything worse for them than physically brutalizing a universally popular Western media personality for literally no reason at all.
Problem is, she’s not popular with the type of people who vote for Trump. His demographic would take Israel’s side on this one.
I wasn’t really thinking of them as part of “the Western world” tbh. I do understand that there’s a loud contingent for whom she’s just a stupid loudmouth FEMALE, maybe that is a fly in the ointment of my argument. I do think it’ll still have a pretty significant impact.
TBF, if most of the Western world was not either tacitly or loudly supporting imperialism and having violence as virtue we wouldn’t be in such a mess. Israel is a Franco-British creation nurtured by the USA, their first-born…
There’s no assumption: it’s a known fact.
Thats on borrowed time. Money to isreal is one of the only issues left and right agree with. Someone is going to take advantage of that eventually and isrela is gonna get disconnected from the US teet
The
leftDemocrats and the right.Politics are left, right, and whatever the fuck Democrats are doing.
The
leftDemocrats and the rest of the right.
I know you are probably American, so am I.
We need to stop calling the Democrats the “left” party. They’re not.
Isn’t it relative though? They’re left of the Republicans so they are the left most choice Americans have.
No because left means anti-capitalist. The Democratic Party is not anti-capitalist. Therefore, the Democratic Party is not a left party.
However, they are a neoliberal party. Which, when compared to the Republican Party’s existence as a fascist party, does certainly make the Democrats preferable. But just because they are preferable does not mean they are left
Uncle Sam has Congestive Heart Failure. Their position is tenuous to be generous.
If only it were that simple. The US still has an insanely powerful military. Historically a nation in decline, with an unpredictable leader, and a strong military is not very good for the world
Rapidly shrinking and disabling that military. None of it matters though. We picked a doomsday, AI weapons.
There are reports from American doctors who worked in Gaza of Palestinian babies being regularly shot in the head.
That was reported during the Biden administration.
Israel is murdering babies, and it hasn’t affected their support. Why would this matter?
I should clarify what I mean a bit.
I’m not saying that brutalizing Greta Thunberg is the straw that is going to break the camel’s back. I’m saying that it’s an escalation of a pattern of behavior that I think is very likely leading toward a collapse of the zionist project at some point in the next decade.
The testimony of those doctors is absolutely part of the same pattern of behavior. And while a lot of folks have looked at the continuing genocide and concluded that clearly, nothing has mattered and nothing will, I believe it has, and it will.
It’s hard to describe succinctly, but Israel today is far, far, FAR weaker than Israel 5 years ago. There is an inertia that lets them feign invincibility, but the country is truly in times without precedent. The longest war since its establishment was 118 days in '82. So much of the assumptions on which Israel relies – constant readiness, bipartisan US support, the total support of Europe, constant Jewish immigration, a strong labor force, a booming tourism industry – is in shambles. Internal divisions are rending their society apart. Their economy, international influence, and social institutions are in crisis.
In this context, this continued loss of an ability or willingness to be discrete in their atrocities really does bolster my conviction that in the next five years the country is going to collapse.
Unlike many, I don’t say this lightly or with glee. I just say it because it’s what I foresee.
Palestinian babies
Plenty of people in The WestR don’t consider them worthy of empathy, but a white woman of small stature who first became famous as a child might be a different story. We need a mass worldwide cultural shift to identifying all humans as part of the in group or we aren’t going to make it through this century.
Remember when Elon Musk did a nazi salute on the world stage for all to see? Remember how we were trying to rationalize what the hell he was thinking? The simplest answer is that nazis at some point just can’t help themselves and they end up saluting because they love doing it, they just need to show people who they are.
Same logic I think applies here. Yes it is self-defeating, yes, it is stupid, and yes, it is gratuitous and dangerous. But these people working Ben Gvir’s prisons? This is who they are. It’s horrifically simple. The people working the Israeli prison system are low level functionaries of apartheid. These are not people who think in terms of strategy etc. If they had the capacity to think like that they wouldn’t be there. It’s as simple as that.
/Edit: typos
While I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, it’s amazing how self-destructive this is. Greta is an internationally famous activist. Flagrantly violating and abusing a person with world renown - along with dozens of other activists - is a radically stupid way to hasten international isolation.
You’d be correct most of the time, but this is Israel we are talking about. They know there won’t be any consequences because claiming they did something wrong must mean you’re a nazi, and even if you get over that, daddy USA is there to protect them anyway.
Israel could livestream a soldier killing Greta and they would face no consequences whatsoever.
They’ve gone so far over every red line that it literally doesn’t matter anymore at this point. They’re literally destroying an entire population - genocide - in full view of the world. What is some maltreatment of an activist in the face of all that? If indiscriminately bombing preschools and blowing up children with drones doesn’t manage to do it, what will?
They have done worse to other protestors and faced zero accountability:
They’ve deliberately attacked the American Navy before and nothing came of it.
And tried to assassinate a US Ambassador:
Insane. If this were any other country we’d glass the entire continent, but for a bunch of worthless nazis? We bend over backwards to help them even more. Infuriating.
For those who don’t know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
I don’t know if it was ever shown to be deliberate, but they sure didn’t exercise due care in identifying their targets.
With some of the politicians in power these days, it will be pushed as finally putting an end to her climate lies or some other bullshit culture war topic.
If trying to exterminate a whole population did not do anything, I doubt abusing Thunberg will change things
I don’t think any law or any order is actually a thing anymore.
Genuienly, how is it self destructive?
Is this the red line that’s going to result in…
… anything negative happening to Israel?
Probably not, no.
What, is somebody go to war with Israel and the US over Greta, not hundreds of thousands being starved shot blown up and lit on fire?
It is intentional. They want to flaunt their power. Look at what we can do and nobody will stop us.
There’s also a considerable portion of the world who hates Greta and is probably cheering them on. The first news story I saw pop up about Greta being kidnapped said Israel was doing the world a favour…
It’s not. Nothing will change, the west will keep supporting israel while pretending not to
You make a good point. I think sadly it will not rise to the point of actual effect. It will inflame people who support her, and those folks are likely already inflamed over Gaza. Many others don’t give a shit about her or actively hate her, and they will either gloss over this or say “that’s what you get” or even “good.”
My own mother, who is a feminist and wildlife advocate, loves to repost FB memes about her being an unrealistic virtue signalling twat who perfoms a low-carbon image while still not living up to the humble standards of the elbow-grease-powered older generations. It’s sad. Greta is incredibly polarizing, and some people just hate her for being young and idealistic.
On the whole I don’t see this affecting anything. We live in an era of mutually exclusive mental models of reality and they can be incredibly well insulated.
Supremacists gonna supremacist.
We also have no evidence any of this happened. It is easy to make propaganda when we want to believe it.
It is also probably not true. Especially if one consider what you pointed out
Al Jazeera has a different report. They say she was dragged, not beaten.
I cannot understand the language spoken in that X video, there is no translation, and there are no free publicly available no-login X.com video translation options that I can find.
Additionally I cannot find the cnn turk video from this activist on the internet anywhere but this x link.
I would be very surprised if they actually did what this post describes because everyone would be outraged. She’s a sweetheart and so many eyes are watching what they do.
thecanary is not a reliable news site. They’re effectively the daily mail of the left.
It’s insane that journalist still fucking link to x.com which cannot be viewed by any body. Might as well link 127.0.0.1
because everyone would be outraged
People who heard the story and voice of Hind Rajab and weren’t outraged would not be outraged by anything. They would at most do what you just did: deny the monsters who shoot kids in the head would do anything to an adult they publicly stated they will treat the way they treat Palestinians hostages.
Greta is a well known white European lady though, the impact this would have in the West is way higher. Whether this would have any radical effect on anything is still to be seen, though.
Is it not. Pro israel countries don’t care about the skin color of the people opposing genocide. Normal people are already outraged by what happen in Gaza
Is the guardian a less respected source then el jazzira?
I ran the X video through a translation app using Turkish to English and got this, which doesn’t really say much. Guessing the translation is terrible.
The translation I got from the video clip in the OP x post is:
“They’re all politicians. They all tried to treat us like bugs, but they treat everyone like that. They tortured greta very badly in front of our eyes. Get up.”
“Evet”[sic]
Guessing this^ was an error in my translation app.
“They persecuted Greta. Greta is still a little child.”
“They killed them. They made them kiss the israeli flag. So they did the same thing as the nazis”
Maybe someone who speaks turkish or whatever language is being spoken can help us understand the beating claim, because so far there is no source for that.
—All of them, [including the] politicians, they attempted to treat us like insects and they treated everyone the same. They heavily tortured Greta before our very eyes.
—Really?
—Yes. They were very cruel to Greta. Greta is but a little child. They dragged her, made her kiss the Israeli flag. I mean, they did the same things the Nazis did.
I think the torture he’s talking about is the dragging and forcing her to kiss the flag but the reporter also seems to think a sort of harsher torture and i think that’s why he uses “being cruel” when continued.
Here’s the text if anyone wants to run it through other translation software.
—Hepsi, siyasetçisi, hepsi bize böyle böcek muamelesi yapmaya kalktılar ama herkese böyle davranıyorlar. E, Greta’ya çok ağır işkence yaptılar, gözlerimizin önünde.
—Gerçekten mi?
—Evet. Greta’ya zulmettiler. Küçücük çocuk daha Greta. Onu süründürdüler, İsrail bayrağını öptürdüler. Yani Naziler ne yaptıysa aynısını yaptılar.
I’m going to wait for a source I’ve heard of on that one.
Same, it’s a tweet of one guy, who might use this to cause an outrage. I’ll wait for Greta’s statement about this
I saw that earlier and it’s really shitty that they have her in a cell that is giving her rashes (probably from bedbugs) and that they’re doing some stupid thing with flags. She did nothing wrong.
Still not the same magnitude of what is described in the X “quote” which has zero sources and no way to verify their translation, for me anyway.
The X quote which has zero source that lines up with it:
“They [Israelis] dragged little Greta [Thunberg] by her hair before our eyes, beat her, and forced her to kiss the Israeli flag. They did everything imaginable to her, as a warning to others,”
The same quote is also in the guardian article.
“They dragged little Greta [Thunberg] by her hair before our eyes, beat her, and forced her to kiss the Israeli flag. They did everything imaginable to her, as a warning to others,” the Turkish activist ErsinÇelik, a participant in the Sumud flotilla, told Anadolu news agency
Much better. Shitty conditions and some kind of flag parade were definitely included. The beating bit is less clear, and a bigger claim since actually producing deliberate, visible injuries would be a dangerous move on their part.
Not if they beat her with a bag of oranges
Ok, Bing, no one was asking you for advice.
Go jump up yourself weirdo
Bing Crosby, of White Christmas fame, was accused by one of his kids, for using a bag of oranges to discipline his kids.
Given everything else Israel as done, do you honestly disbelieve it?
Given Lemmy’s proclivity for rage jerking, and the fact Israel isn’t stupid, I do. It’s not a matter of moral capability.
That’s not the point
Isn’t it though?
I neither believe it nor do I believe it to be false.
Absolutely
Yep, I called that they would torture her, though that was 4 months back on a previous flotilla.
People downvoted that, with no explanation.
You got three downvotes and three upvotes. It’s not that big of deal.
Its funny that you think I personally care about what people generally think of my opinions.
Its terrifying that you don’t realize that anyone who downvoted that was confident the notion of me stating something that would probably eventually happen was… not likely, not the case, for some reason… but they were also too lazy to explain why they thought that.
You cared enough to write a paragraph that I’m not going to read.
You cared enough to link back to a previous comment from 4 months ago to show everyone and say “see see I called it!”
You response to this news is to complain about having been down voted? I can’t imagine why
There have been a lot of libs coming over to lemmy ever since the crackdowns on reddit. Among… Others
Yeah I’ve noticed a lot of the engagement to what’s said here is similar to r/worldnews a lot of the time. There just needs to be more communities on other instances so we don’t have to deal with the enlightened centrism that dominates reddit on here too and the libs can have their own space aswell
Yeah, like most of the .world mods.
Anyone who volunteers to moderate stuff that isnt their own server is pretty sus imo. Even more so for those that do it with an iron fist
Are you 12?
Once again the people who were right are mocked and the the people who were wrong just live without considering the future.
