I’m no fan of vibe coded apps but rsync is literally free software with a free licence… forking it seems like less work than harrassing the guy who maintains in the hope that he capitulates.
It honestly sucks that the #1 requirement to being an effective FOSS maintainer (above even coding talent) is the skill of enforcing healthy emotional boundaries.
After the XZ debacle, it would only be harder, because they can’t trust that anyone volunteering to step up is doing so with the best of intentions, and vetting someone would be adding a lot to the workload.
The current maintainer, Andrew Tridgell, is one of the two original authors, and was dragged back into maintaining this in 2024 because rsync is so important and nobody else was stepping up to replace Wayne Davison, who was the primary maintainer from 2002 to 2024.
If this project had people eager to fork it, that probably wouldn’t have happened in 2024.
Your only objection to this is that you feel uncomfortable being mean.
“But people could just fork it.” This laissez faire attitude doesn’t actually do anything, and is only fronted by people who don’t want to do anything. This is a states’-right-to-slavery argument.
Yes what a reasonable comparison to make. Being held captive and made to labor against your will, with no rights of your own, is literally the same as choosing to use free tools which were developed in a way that doesn’t 100% align with your preferences.
Totally normal thing that totally normal people will say.
I think you just don’t like the idea that using AI says anything about you as a person. It does though. It tells me where you’re willing to compromise.
tldr: it isn’t that he just decided to start changing things using claude and broke a bunch of stuff; the bugs he introduced recently are side effects of security fixes for the onslaught of security vulnerabilities which other people are finding using LLMs.
I am advocating for having some sympathy for the guy working for free, and pointing out that your capacity for saying “just fork it” most likely does not translate into capacity to actually fork it.
It’s up to them how they develop their completely free software. If you’re not happy with it and can’t stop using it, you can fork it. If you can’t do it yourself, you pay someone else to. If it suddenly seems like paying for 50% of your FOSS is too much, then consider that the FOSS devs themselves pay for most of it with their largely uncompensated free time and probably want to have a bit more of said free time back.
Considering the pool of open source power maintainers is shrinking year by year and no fresh blood seems to come forward, I wonder what next time will look like? If you add the frank hostility from the community I don’t see what could motivate people to start helping on high profile projects
That’s my question about people who are now looking to jump to a fork. When the fork maintainer can’t keep up, what’s happens?
I wish I did have a solution to put forward to get people interested in helping on these kinds of projects (or the relevant skills). I don’t have an answer, but this really just sucks.
What I see: A world class software engineer (Samba, rsync, linux, and more) is learning how to use the latest tech that is vastly changing the industry he works in. It would be both foolish and irresponsible to not learn it and embrace it responsibly. If anyone is in a good position to direct and judge the output of LLMs, it will be engineers like Andrew who have spent their life applying critical thinking and good judgement.
And on the opposing side, we see a bunch of droll jammerlappies, pitching tents on the side of a highway, waving their fists at the world zooming by.
Keep outsourcing your critical thinking to a glorified internet mob turning against open source maintainers, one of our last significant allies in the field. Hope that works out for you.
One could just as well argue that books / written knowledge is a crutch that prevents people from learning.
Assuming everyone using a tool is outsourcing their thinking is daft, and casting unfounded aspersions on others isn’t exactly a model of critical thinking either. lol
I’m no fan of vibe coded apps but rsync is literally free software with a free licence… forking it seems like less work than harrassing the guy who maintains in the hope that he capitulates.
OSS maintenance is a thankless job for the most part and the reaction in this thread proves the point.
It honestly sucks that the #1 requirement to being an effective FOSS maintainer (above even coding talent) is the skill of enforcing healthy emotional boundaries.
After the XZ debacle, it would only be harder, because they can’t trust that anyone volunteering to step up is doing so with the best of intentions, and vetting someone would be adding a lot to the workload.
The current maintainer, Andrew Tridgell, is one of the two original authors, and was dragged back into maintaining this in 2024 because rsync is so important and nobody else was stepping up to replace Wayne Davison, who was the primary maintainer from 2002 to 2024.
If this project had people eager to fork it, that probably wouldn’t have happened in 2024.
you’re absolutely right the only solution remaining is to harass the dev harder🙄
Your only objection to this is that you feel uncomfortable being mean.
“But people could just fork it.” This laissez faire attitude doesn’t actually do anything, and is only fronted by people who don’t want to do anything. This is a states’-right-to-slavery argument.
Yes what a reasonable comparison to make. Being held captive and made to labor against your will, with no rights of your own, is literally the same as choosing to use free tools which were developed in a way that doesn’t 100% align with your preferences.
Totally normal thing that totally normal people will say.
Being provocative always pulls people who don’t understand comparisons out of the woodwork.
You know you can compare apples and oranges, right? Both are fruit. Neither are root vegetables. Look, we’re learning things.
Yadi yada so you’re an entitled bully but also an ignorant asshole what a lovely person. You should probably go back to 4chan where your kind belongs.
I think you just don’t like the idea that using AI says anything about you as a person. It does though. It tells me where you’re willing to compromise.
I think like all bullies you like to dominate and degrade, then you pin fictional ideals on it to make it feel like you’re doing good.
Wow, an openly pro-bullying position from someone on a trans-inclusive instance? I’m sure your admins will appreciate the report I just sent them.
I am militantly pro-trans and will absolutely bully in their favor. Conservative rhetoric has no place in the society I want to live in.
maintaining a fork is a lot of work and currently there is nobody even helping review commits in the mainline version.
i am also disgusted by the use of discord but i recommend reading tridge’s messages yesterday in this log of the rsync discord for some context about recent events.
tldr: it isn’t that he just decided to start changing things using claude and broke a bunch of stuff; the bugs he introduced recently are side effects of security fixes for the onslaught of security vulnerabilities which other people are finding using LLMs.
I never said it wasn’t a lot of work. I said we shouldn’t harass someone.
I think you’ve misunderstood me :)
I am advocating for having some sympathy for the guy working for free, and pointing out that your capacity for saying “just fork it” most likely does not translate into capacity to actually fork it.
I didn’t say it did. But we don’t show sympathy to someone by harassing and bullying them.
You’re so confused.
We dont have the capacity to replace like 50% of all open source devs. We just have to hope that they get their shit together again.
It’s up to them how they develop their completely free software. If you’re not happy with it and can’t stop using it, you can fork it. If you can’t do it yourself, you pay someone else to. If it suddenly seems like paying for 50% of your FOSS is too much, then consider that the FOSS devs themselves pay for most of it with their largely uncompensated free time and probably want to have a bit more of said free time back.
How do they make money? Like they’re consultants and make plenty of money and then spend some free time maintaining OSS projects?
Usually they’re just regular software engineers who spend some of their free time on FOSS. Very few projects earn enough in donations to pay salaries.
I mean. What they need is help. Other people who can code who are willing to contribute time to the help maintain the project.
Burnout is real and I don’t think “getting their shit together” actually fixes anything. The next time they burn out we wash rinse repeat?
Considering the pool of open source power maintainers is shrinking year by year and no fresh blood seems to come forward, I wonder what next time will look like? If you add the frank hostility from the community I don’t see what could motivate people to start helping on high profile projects
That’s my question about people who are now looking to jump to a fork. When the fork maintainer can’t keep up, what’s happens?
I wish I did have a solution to put forward to get people interested in helping on these kinds of projects (or the relevant skills). I don’t have an answer, but this really just sucks.
I don’t see anyone here quietly hoping
Indeed.
What I see: A world class software engineer (Samba, rsync, linux, and more) is learning how to use the latest tech that is vastly changing the industry he works in. It would be both foolish and irresponsible to not learn it and embrace it responsibly. If anyone is in a good position to direct and judge the output of LLMs, it will be engineers like Andrew who have spent their life applying critical thinking and good judgement.
And on the opposing side, we see a bunch of droll jammerlappies, pitching tents on the side of a highway, waving their fists at the world zooming by.
Keep outsourcing your critical thinking to a glorified autocorrect. Hope that works out for you.
Keep outsourcing your critical thinking to a glorified internet mob turning against open source maintainers, one of our last significant allies in the field. Hope that works out for you.
Lol nice comeback
i think it’s as shitty as the comment it replies to
One could just as well argue that books / written knowledge is a crutch that prevents people from learning.
Assuming everyone using a tool is outsourcing their thinking is daft, and casting unfounded aspersions on others isn’t exactly a model of critical thinking either. lol
Truly spoken like someone who’s never actually read a book before.
Is THAT the best you could come up with? Oh dear.
Come up with? Did you think I was aiming for some kind of pithy comeback?
You literally said that books are a crutch that prevent people from learning. Something an illiterate person would say.
Worse even because they’re not waving their fists at “the world”, they’re waving them at a person.
Honestly I would not be shocked if years from now we discover these harassment campaigns are funded by Thiel.