- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
Many international fans visiting the US for the World Cup have become frustrated by the culture of tipping servers, telling the BBC that tipping fatigue has set in.
England supporter Geoff Pryor said he understood tipping for good service, but he found it “weird” when buying a bottle of water and “they try to get a tip for doing nothing”.
In the US, staff at some restaurants and bars are paid just over $2 (£1.50) an hour, and they expect customers to tip about 20% of the total cost of the bill so they can earn a living.
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been bad tippers.
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This is why no one should ever visit the States for holidays. Lots of better countries to go that don’t have this bullshit.
I never tip, unless i received exceptional service.
Then again i only eat out at venues where I pay up front or self serve, or in places so posch - I actually WANT to tip the staff for providing an outstanding experience.
On the rare occation I am in a venue where tipping is expected and service and experience are not phenomenal I do not tip and happily send any staff to fuck right off if approached - that sort of establishment SHOULD go under.
You suck for not tipping people who are paid in tips.
Yeah, pay a livable salary and fuck off with begging for money.
Tell that to the owner and not the staff.
It is not the owner’s fault, it is everyone as a nation, accepting the practice and blaming customers.
It’s very much also the owners. Outsourcing your staff’s salaries to the customer while being able to advertise cheaper prices is an incredible deal for them while dropping all of the responsibility on the customers.
The customers end up paying the extra however you slice it. Be it tips, a non optional gratuity, or baked into the price. Most restaurant margins are surprisingly low, its not like theyre being greedy and hoarding the ‘extra’ money that would otherwise go to servers salary.
The tip passing direct from the customer to the staff prevents it from being taxed 2x, (both sales and income dont get charged on tips) you’d be adding an extra 10% or more on top of the 20% if you moved to to a baked in cost.
You guys are always so worried about your taxes. With the current administration I can see why, I guess. We’re not asking to not pay what we owe, we’re just asking that what we owe be transparent, like in a civilised country.
You are only harming workers and are an asshole if you withhold tips.
Why do you give the employer a pass and blame the customer?
I don’t get the employer a pass. But I live in a reality of tipped wages and have had a job like that before. I have solidarity with those workers by helping the make a livelihood. Me not tipping only benefits me and the owner. Not the laborer. It is immoral to withhold the money earned
The employer is the one withholding the money earned, the customer is simply paying the price that is advertised. The employer is the one that is exploiting the cheap labor, and if the labor looks to the customer to fix it it’s not going to work out.
You fight the system by fighting the system, not punishing people who are even more vulnerable to the cruelty of the system.
Employers paying shitty wages are punishing workers, this is the source of your complaint. If workers got a fair wage to begin with, you wouldn’t give a shit about tipping. But employers pay a shit wage and have successfully got people like you to blame and shame customers instead of them. If you think this will resolve by arguing with the customers that aren’t subsiding the wages, well, good luck with that.
Cool story. Good way to have solidarity with workers
Pay your staff properly
No, you suck for accepting and perpetuating a culture where it is necessary. Do the right thing and refuse to go along with it. Insist that all staff are paid livable wages. Petition your state to force the issue if necessary.
Yes because me not tipping is going to end the system. Not tipping only benefits me and the owner. The staff is fucked. Only assholes think their individual lack of tipping with change a system. Systematic change requires a system to change.
You suck for living in a nation that allows employers to use tips to make up a half decent wage.
Yes I have a choice in that matter. I live in a reality of tipped wages and I have solidarity with the people who labor under it
That’s not solidarity in terms of labour. It’s just accepting the status quo, while doing a lip service to the people affected. If you really want to show solidarity, join a union and participate in collective action to improve the working conditions. The more people a union has, the stronger it can get. Worker rights in Europe didn’t come out of the good hearts of politicians or companies.
You fight the system by fighting the system, not punishing people who are even more vulnerable to the cruelty of the system.
Then join a union.
I’m literally in the IWW
Actual clown take
I have solidarity with the people who labor under the system.
I have only read the comments here. I see employers are not paying minimum wages is the problem here.
If minimum wages were paid tipping or not tipping is a question of good service and appreciation and not a question of survival.
Place the blame on the business owners who refuse to pay fair wages to employees. This is a criminal act and customer not tipping is just a question of social politeness.
Minimum wage isn’t enough to live off of in any city.
How many times is this shit going to get reposted?
deleted by creator
All you can do is refuse to tip in solidarity with the workers.
No service worker appreciates that crap.
Maybe but their boss appreciates customers handling performance bonuses a lot more.
And apparently in the US they don’t even have to pay them minimum wage so it’s a win/win for management getting to treat their staff like slaves.
Actually no, in most places management DOESNT like it when that happens. If the worker doesn’t get enough tips to make minimum wage they have to pay them that wage.
Put it this way, if they have only had to pay a worker $20 a night for so long it’s almost part of their budget. If all of a sudden they have to pay double or even triple that (or more depending on the state) they they have to cough up way more money than they want and that eats into their pockets.
Don’t get me wrong it sucks for the service worker. Now they are making 1/3 or what they usually do or worse. But it’s not a performance review and the boss isn’t happy about it.
The tipping culture is stupid here and it needs to end, but I would hate to do it on the backs of hard-working people.
If the worker doesn’t get enough tips to make minimum wage they have to pay them that wage.
So you can admit that it’s just subsidizing management but still think tipping isn’t to benefit them.
So you admit they do have to pay minimum wage? (Clearly a foolish way to make a point)
Take what is said and don’t change the message. Doing that weakens your argument.
To your point yes and no. It does NOT subsidize MANAGMENT, if puts money in the pockets of the owner. Clearly you are a fool because you make a point and ignore the specific example that helps your argument. “They don’t like it because they have to then pay the minimum wage.”
You clearly ignore everything I have said and missed the message. It does not benefit management. It benefits the owner.
So you admit they do have to pay minimum wage?
Yes, I took what you said as correct.
I see management as an arm of the bourgeoisie, not as an ally to the proletariat.
As such
. It does not benefit management. It benefits the owner.
This is a distinction without a difference.
Then you are a fool. Managers in these places make about $5 an hour more but do not get tips. Meaning they make less in general and are doing the job of two. Clearly you don’t understand anything about the situation. Stop making an argument you know nothing about because you didn’t even know the rules about minimum wage here.
Ultimately, you are correct.
You’re also probably being downvoted by service workers who rely on tips to earn a living.
That’s the double-edged sword. Almost nobody likes tipping, and most people would prefer a system where workers are simply paid a fair wage. The reality, however, is that tipping currently makes up a substantial portion of the income for millions of people.
The only way to eliminate tipping is for people to stop participating in the system altogether, forcing businesses to adopt a different compensation model.
The unfortunate part is that the transition wouldn’t be painless. Until those businesses adapt, a very large number of workers would bear the cost, putting them at a significant financial disadvantage.
Go fuck yourself.
Let’s fix this headline.
American’s Confused By Fair Wage Practices of Civilized Countries
The article could start like this:
Some Americans, more specifically those from the socalled “United States”, are confused by fair wages and other basic social norms on civilized countries.
Ci… Civ… Civ-il… Civil-i? Civil-iz? Civil rights? CIVIL RIGHTS COUNTRIES?! Does your country’s ICE know about this???
If there’s a problem, yo, they’ll solve it. Institutionalized racism, no laws to resolve it. ICE ICE baby
Really putting that vanilla in the ICE
Which American?
You know who! It’s the American with the Confused. He owns it!
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been bad tippers.
Should read
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been making staff aware that I and other businesses are bad employers.
Yeah, why’s the bar owner being quoted in a paragraph about the frustrations of hospitality staff? He’s the one not paying them a fair wage and expecting the customers to subsidize his payroll!
And he is.
Making others aware? (commendable)
or
A bad employer? (not so commendable)
Well if you travel to the US for the World Cup you’re either ignorant as fuck or you like the direction they’re going and want to sponsor it.
You chose to go. Stay and suffer or leave and get better.
Or maybe they like football?
I like cocaine but I’m not going to hang out in rural Colombia anytime soon.
You can like football and not support america and FIFA’s blatant corruption.
This is Lemmy sir, only extremes are allowed here.
Fuck you for having hobbies, you should 110% dedicate yourself to fighting foreign country at any cost!
We don’t pay our workers, lol. That’s on you!
It is completely out of control. I have been asked to tip at self operated vending machines. WTF?
That’s because vending machines aren’t actually paid at all and rely entirely on tips. Little known fact.
Damn. What a heartless bastard I am.
Stop being a robophobe
Clankist.
Genius.
They’re unconfigured PoS systems. Look at all the different PoS solutions out there. You never know where or when to tap your credit card, hit yes before or after the transaction is initiated. It’s generally smaller vendors not configuring non-out-of-the-box solutions. Simple as that.
Kinda weird that US culture tends to demonize handouts, yet handouts in the shape of tips are expected and you’re a bad person for not providing them.
Aha, but the great old USA love to think it’s a meritocracy, and since tipping is something that was originally merit based, it’s a very American expression. You work a little harder, you get a little extra.
But also, in a uniquely American way, capitalism turned tipping a moral dilemma.
Also, tipping is a way to legalize paying marginalized groups less. It enables a system where young attractive White people make more money for the same work.
Handouts are accepted based solely upon how much money you make.
If you’re poor? You’re a leech on society.
If you’re rich? You clearly know money and you’ll obviously invest that back into the economy and it’ll trickle down to the poor people any minute now.
Handouts to people are demonized.
Handouts to companies are perfectly fine.
Tips get a pass because everyone (at least instinctively) understands it is benefiting the company more than the people officially receiving it.
The price on the menu isn’t anywhere near the bill the expect you to pay at the end.
Bill = menu-price + taxes + 20% tip
(where 20% is just a rough average)
These days I’ve seen people trying to push 30% to 40% as the minimum tip. Either that or they sneak it in with service charges or gratuity fees with a suggestion of a 25% tip on top.
These days I’ve seen people trying to push 30% to 40% as the minimum tip.
I’ve seen that, too, and it’s INCREDIBLY sleazy.
It’s been sleazy for a while, the automatically calculated tips almost always calculate the tip on the total including tax. Wtf…we’re expected to tip the government now, too?
When I notice this I recalculate and don’t return
Fuck that, those people are psychos. It’s not going to catch on.
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Unfortunately it’s catching on, and if you read half the comments here you will find people backing it up because the poor workers won’t be paid any other way almost as if restaurant workers weren’t paid another way in the past.
Well I’m still gonna tip 20% and if they think that’s not high enough then they can cry about it cause next time I’ll tip them 15%.
If they want 25% then they’d better give fucking exceptional service, and I don’t just mean being polite yet insincere and using all the tired robotic phrases that they’re programmed to do in OJT. I know “cookie-cutter waiter response” when I hear one.
If they want higher than 25% then they can fucking blow me…
I’m still pinned at 15% although I mainly stay out of the country somewhere where tipping is what it used to be aka totally optional and highly appreciated. Tipping everywhere even 5% would be very strange behavior here.
Don’t worry American citizens are also confused by the expensive tipping culture in the US. I still maintain 15% for a good job, 10% for a mediocre job, 5% for anything below. Giving above 15% is just subsidizing the pay the employer should be giving. It’s a symptom of the fact that wages have stagnated for over 50 years. The pay that once supported someone and even a child is now far below the poverty line for even an individual. So instead of increasing pay to match what it once was many businesses have turned to aggressive tipping over just increasing the prices of their service / products.
Talking about restaurant dining only… My baseline is 20%. Higher for breakfast and/or a great job. Shave some off for truly bad experiences.
I 100% agree that servers should be paid a full living wage before tips. But the truth is, they survive entirely on their tips. Not tipping over 15% isn’t sending a message to the employer or the industry. The only person that is impacting is your server who probably doesn’t even get to keep 100% of what you leave and makes an hourly rate that’s probably 50% or lower of the minimum wage.
My hometown has a lot of restaurants and a few years back had a measure on the ballot to ensure that servers were actually paid the full hourly minimum wage by their employer. Somehow, the servers were convinced that it would be a bad thing and were against it. The measure failed.
I have to put my money where my mouth is. Generally speaking i have decreased eating out and generally avoid dining in locations where tipping is customary. I absolutely avoid like the plague locations that automatically suggest the minimum tip should be 20%+. That said even the completely automated car wash down the way asks if I want to tip now so I have doubts that tips go to that individual worker or to the workers at all in every circumstance.
If everyone behaved the same then this culture of businesses offloading their employees income directly onto individuals would end very quickly. Tipping wasn’t always like this, the tip used to just be a little extra people gave sometimes and now it’s been weaponized by unscrupulous business owners.
Avoiding eating out is how you put your money where your mouth is. If your impact truly matters, that’s how the restaurant owners/investors will see it.
As much as I don’t like it, 20% is now the standard for tipping. Anything less than that you’re sending a message, but the only possible interpretation of that message is that you don’t like the service. There’s no method for delivering your individual feelings about tipping culture through tipping less than everyone around you. There’s no form on the receipt that gets collated and presented to decision makers.
In reality the only person you’re harming in tipping under 20% is the server. Either they’re taking home less money and nobody notices, or somebody is paying attention to how much each server is getting tipped and you just gave them a bad mark that management sees.
Fair although I still think there’s a debate between 15% and 20% being the default. Also I can totally eat out and avoid this issue all together, just eat at places that don’t have tipping.
Society as a whole reducing or no longer tipping would make a big impact. My current State requires wait staff to be paid at the same standard state minimum all other positions have to. The employer has to make up wages to at least State minimum in one’s that don’t. Which is what the majority of the kitchen and bussers make. If servers are not getting Far better than minimum (at least at the dozens of chain restaurants I’ve worked at) they quit.
Boy though, would the transition (were it to occur) suuuuck for a lot of folks. So I don’t even pretend to know the best way to start.
Should servers make more on average than cooks (who are responsiblefor both the taste and cleanliness of your food)? Probably an entirely different discussion.
Should a restaurant pay all workers a fair wage or go out of business because they rely on patrons to make up for their shiity pay hierarchy? I say yes.
I will also say, there is a difference between a chain restaurant and a local owned establishment. (Insert chain restaurant here) wants me to tip their servers 20% for a subpar service, just because it’s expected? … they can go suck socks. They can much better afford to pay each server that extra 20% than I. Aunt Margie’s diner, who always has good food and what appears to be genuinely attentive and kind staff? Absofuckinglutely.
Side note. This is also why I always bring cash for tips, that way the server can opt to disclose what they wish. A real tip, in a fair world, imho, should be just for them. No taxes, no payroll accountancy.
…that got… long. Uhhh thanks for coming to my Ted talk?
Somehow, the servers were convinced that it would be a bad thing and were against it. The measure failed.
Same reason some workers are against unions. They’ve been deluded by corporate propaganda.
I’ve heard “But i make so much money in tips!” so many times. Then don’t fucking complain whenever you get a slow day when you don’t even make enough to pay for the gas it took to get you there and back!
Oh, absolutely. I should have put Somehow in quotes.
makes an hourly rate that’s probably 50% or lower of the minimum wage
Illegal everywhere in the USA. It is federal law that tipped wage workers must be paid the difference up to minimum wage if tips did not cover that gap.
I mean, yeah, but federal minimum wage is only $7.50 an hour. Hardly a livable wage anywhere in the country. The minimum for tipped workers in this town is $6.50 an hour. So at most an employer would need to cover $40 a week under that law.
I did not claim that the federal minimum wage was liveable. That’s a separate point and convo.
And almost impossible to sue over and get paid not to mention servers don’t have the money for confronting their bosses but sure make excuses for the blatant exploitation.
I’m not making excuses for exploitation. Servers are absolutely exploited in the US and the laws are dumb as hell. Servers, and everyone, deserves a liveable wage.
You don’t need to sue. A couple people with paystubs can file a complaint with the state DoL and they’ll investigate.
Of course this varies by state and will take months, but it’s not like you have to pay to retain a lawyer.
Giving above 15% is just subsidizing the pay the employer should be giving.
Wait until you hear about the countries where they don’t even tip 15%! You’re sooo close.
It’s been known for some time that many of those from outside the US are unfamiliar with our tipping culture. I was a waiter in a nice restaurant in '96 when the Olympics were in Atlanta. We had lots of large parties that we added a 20% gratuity to, and clearly indicated on the check and no one complained. But normally the only place you encountered tipping then was in a sit-down restaurant with waiters. Now there’s a thousand and one places where you’re encouraged to tip. Even places where it’s only counter service and you’re supposed to put money in a tip jar when you pay the cashier. It’s all over the place and it’s completely ridiculous and out of hand. Americans hate it. It’s no wonder our guests are confused and pissed off.
There are a few restaurants I have been to in the US that actually pay living wages and say tipping is optional. When the service is really good and you insist you want to tip they are generally over the moon.
I’m so torn about tipping culture, on the one hand it’s bosses not paying workers as much as they deserve, on the other hand it’s one job where workers can earn better than the cost of living doing a low skilled job. I also fully believe that anywhere there is a tip jar that gets pooled between workers there’s someone in management skimming off the top.
It’s also got a lot to do with the fact that we’re talking about selfish dipshits who are willing to give business to FIFA and American businesses when our country has a fascist administration, of course douchebags like that are going to whine about everything
Tipping culture is obnoxious and needs to be dealt with at some point, but fuck these jerk ass tourist morons. Absolutely no solidarity to em.
I don’t know if that really does make up the majority of who we’re talking about here. There are many football fans who are in it for the love of the game and are there to support their country with friends and family in what may be a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Not all of us are as clued-in as you are.
Welcome to the wage slave states of America! Hopefully you get out before you find out how much I.C.E. costs here. Ha!
Seriously don’t come here if you value your safety or your possessions.
