for those who haven’t read the woman’s FB post, here is a clip:
“…were attacked on Saturday night by a group of 7-10+ middle eastern men, believed to be from Syria, aged 18-25”
Canada has a lot of issues at this moment, stemming in part from increased immigration in the last 3 years (causing housing issues, etc). This sort of event, “brown people beating up white women” could be a dangerous racial catalyst.
I hope this gets dealt with as a single incident, but given current affairs, I am not optimistic.
Immigration is such a fucked up issue almost everywhere. You’ve got the right blaming everything on brown people and the left claiming all immigrants are just peace loving pacifists looking for a better life.
As with most issues the truth is in the middle and any immigration policy should absolutely demand that any immigrant coming into a country assimilate and fully support our values of equality for all.
You cannot tell me you support equality for all when your religion makes your wife walk 5 steps behind you in a beekeeper suit at 30c weather while you get to strut around in shorts and flip-flops.
As with most issues the truth is in the middle and any immigration policy should absolutely demand that any immigrant coming into a country assimilate and fully support our values of equality for all.
First generation migrants tend to be, in most receiving countries, less likely to commit crime than native-born population.
http://www.antoniocasella.eu/nume/Bersani_2012.pdf
They found that immigrant men and women were less criminally active than native-born men and women in regard to self-reported crime, being stopped by the police, being charged with a crime, and having contact with a criminal justice agency. This pattern of lower levels of criminal activity among immigrants compared to the native-born held in models controlling for key background characteristics including a variety of educational, employment, and family history measures.
The problem comes with latter generations, if the receiving country isn’t doing an adequate job at integrating them. If the parents work really long hours, aren’t capable of spending much time with their kids, have trouble to pay kindergarten and have trouble teaching their kids the local language, if the kids are victimized by racist bullying at school, have less means to do well academically and land a good job, and are generally otherized by society, they’re at a larger risk getting alienated and engaging in antisocial behavior and even crime.
So, if you don’t want migration to be a problem, invest in public schooling (including kindergarten), offer classes teaching the local language to adults, empower unions, protect labor, and fight racism.
As with most issues the truth is in the middle and any immigration policy should absolutely demand that any immigrant coming into a country assimilate and fully support our values of equality for all.
America is hardly a country of “equality for all” sadly
Edit: This was literally 4 posts down
This happened in Canada, what does the usa have to do with this? This same thing is playing out over in the EU as well, and everyone here is wondering how the right is gaining political growth…this is why. People inherently do not want groups that come over and violently force their beliefs on the population.
US has to do with everything, since facts don’t matter, only outrage
This happened in Canada, what does the usa have to do with this? This same thing is playing out over in the EU as well…People inherently do not want groups that come over and violently force their beliefs on the population.
Maybe if the first group of countries stopped their centuries old “tradition” of doing exactly that to the rest of the world (and on a scale no immigrant could ever imagine inflicting, even if they were so inclined), there wouldn’t be so many people fleeing “developing” nations and war zones in the first place?
I mean, you’re a racist xenophobe so I don’t expect logic would mean much to you, you just want confirmation that brown Muslim people are violent by nature and that they’ve come over there to take your job and rape “your” women), but that doesn’t change reality (which is that your job is at risk because of capitalists, and white men are by far the largest demographic of rapists and other criminals, despite our “justice” systems doing their darndest to over represent minorities in prisons) , nor the fact that almost all of the supposed problems our “developed” world countries have with immigration are at the very least 98% self inflicted and could be resolved if only our governments didn’t treat, and brainwash the population to treat “foreigners” as their scapegoat.
You’re being manipulated by the oldest trick in the book, the fact that you’ve taken the propaganda on so enthusiastically is something you should work out with yourself, rather than taking it out on the most convenient target those in power have marked for you.
Lol you have no clue who I am, blind I am not. Your ignorance to the subject is not something that gives you a pass. Islam is not a peaceful religion, they’ve been fighting in that part of the world way before even the US existed. Right now, in today’s world it is the most violent of religions. It is oppressive to women and lgbtq+ persons and is a current stain on the world. Your whataboutsim does not negate these points.
Why are they believed to be from Syria?
Police said one man stayed and made a statement, in the US at least this means identifying yourself, so they have a likely reliable way to identify the men involved
I hope this gets dealt with as a single incident, but given current affairs, I am not optimistic.
Genuine question. Is it a single incident though?
There have been a lot of reports of issues with people coming to western countries and not holding the same standards of respect for women.
I think it should be dealt with as a single issue iff it is a single issue. If it isn’t a single issue why should it be treated as such?
I don’t think a lot of Syrians were allowed into Canada as much as Germany and Sweden (at least proportionately in the latter case).
Violent people should be brought to justice, this is unacceptable.
There are many Muslim or Islamic immigrants who live in Western countries just fine, what happened here? Many Muslim and Islamic immigrants are LGBT+.
The root cause of the issue in this incident should be examined, and if all else fails violent immigrants should be deported.
I work with middle eastern guys who are like this, they hide this side of themselves when I’m around (white guy) but it comes out when my female coworkers are alone. It’s common enough that I’ve heard about it from multiple people. But when I’m around they’re great and I consider them good work friends.
It’s hard facing this as a lefty. I met a Muslim European colleague at an all hands in tel aviv during pride a few years ago. Went for super late night constitutional with a few other internationals including fellow Americans and the whole city was alive and really queer. In depth conversation with this otherwise really nice guy about how he would minimum believe mental illness, maybe disown, his daughters for being gay or trans. I understood it’s religion like anti abortion and I’ll never persuade him and didn’t argue, just shared perspectives and asked questions.
What’s difficult about it?
Criminals can be victims, victims can be criminals. There is no rule that groups humans into two groups. Oppressed and oppressor with zero movement between the groups. Instead humans just go around, get hit, and hit. Sometimes they avoid hurting people because they can’t, sometimes it is because they won’t.
I have zero problems understanding that some Muslims have been mistreated by the West is one fact and a totally seperate fact is some Muslims would honor kill a LGBT person. Seperate facts.
It’s not hard at all to face this as a leftist. You can acknowledge that homophobia and sexism are deeply rooted in Islamic religions while also recognizing that not every adherent is guilty of either. Pretending something isn’t true because it’s not pretty doesn’t benefit anyone except those who would utilize the blind eye to continue to do harm to society.
The root cause is Islamic conservatism.
Maybe? I guess I want to know what efforts are made for integration. If you treat people as subhumans, they will hate their fellow countrymen
What is it like to be an adult with no agency?
Is it weird that I’m impressed by how minor their injuries are?
A significantly broken nose can be life altering, especially if it’s too swollen to set right away, don’t get me wrong, but they both walked away.
If I was in a fight with multiple men and I ended up on the ground, I don’t think I’m walking away. I say that as a 178cm woman who’s stronger than most.
I dunno. I read it after seeing your comment and it suprised by your assessment. Black eyes take forever to heal. They have to see that every day in the mirror for weeks while also trying to deal with the trauma of the attack.
I think it’s great they walked away, but then again, doesn’t seem like the kind of situation where it’s a group of people looking to maim or kill
I got punched in the face at 24yr, and it never fully recovered. My eye is ok, but any time there’s the slightest bit of facial swelling - tired, allergies, etc. the cheek under that eye pouches up and droops markedly.
I’m absolutely not minimizing their injuries, but I would expect myself to die in that situation. They handled themselves much better in the fight than I think I would.
I’m surprised how serious you take black eyes
The story could easily be “racist woman gets punched in face after saying something”
What? Where does it say at all in the article that these woman were racist to the guys before being attacked?
Apparently the women started it, got hit, then the attack was over and everything was civil when police arrived
That isn’t indicative of an attack, and as highlighted above the damage done is pretty minimal for 10 on 2
However the side you take will change the version of events you believe. My point was just that the media is taking a biased approach to the story and could flip it the other way if they wanted
the article clearly says the men made sexually degrading insults to begin with. did you ignore that part?
Oh good so you caught the part where the article was displaying a bias
My statement wouldn’t have made sense if you didn’t
Did you catch the part where she says the men claim she started it and the media didn’t follow up on it?
so, in doubt, you side with the men?
They’re Canadian.
Broken nose, broken teeth and black eyes? This was a normal day at whale shit hockey.
IIUC, that’s a mostly consensual activity.
atheism is the answer. until we as a whole reject religion, these incidents will be recurring.
I know homophobes that are atheists. while religion being gone would decrease it, do not expect it to be gone just because of that. People will always have issues with people different than they are.
yes, but with religion out of the way, we can implement better education to reduce ‘otherism’ bias. i am convinced that the only obstacles stopping us from being better humans are all rooted in BS fairy tales.
Secularism has caused two world wars and we’re heading for a third.
how many wars has religion caused?
How many wars has secularism caused?
not nearly as fucking many as religion has caused. are you seriously advocating for a more religious world?
So maybe the issue isn’t religion or the absence there of, but that shitty people will find excuses to justify their shittyness. That would make focusing on religion a waste of time.
Lol what? You are delusional. I’m not sure Orthodox Slavs would agree that WW1 and the subsequent Russian Civil War were “secular” wars considering most propoganda from that time was highly religious and they were seen as “holy wars” by both Slavs and Germans.
Both world wars were caused mostly by nationalism/ethnic conflict and recent history/economic problems. Secularism had literally not a single thing to do with it. Where exactly do you get this “WW1 and WW2 were caused by secularism” delusion from?
While true they won’t have a belief system that backs it up, it won’t have the power behind it.
There are smart homophobes. They use science, however flawed it is, to promote their arguments. Cutting out religion would take care of the few vocal people who genuinely believe being gay is against their religion but it definitely wouldn’t take care of the larger problem which has always been xenophobia.
Not necessarily. Plenty of chill religious people and unchill atheists. Russian homophobia, for instance, is generally secular.
as it was under Stalin.
Correct
Well those Jehovah witnesses weren’t going to ship themselves to Siberia.
Some call it divine intervention by the state.
i’d ship every person that insists on their religion over science to some hellhole to rot away. building a better world now saves future generations form suffering. the payoff is immeasurable.
7 decades ago…
is it really, though? provide some evidence. and if it is, do you have a better solution to reduce bias?
Really? So why is that Krill East Orthodox Shaman announcing he hates gays every single week?
Also show me the religious Muslim who isn’t a homophobe
Homophobia and Atheism aren’t mutually exclusive to one another, hell I know plenty of Atheist Transphobes… some of whom used to be gay allies until they were radicalized by the Alt Right.
anecdotal.
There is a really funny South Park episode about this… Bottom line is assholes will be assholes with or without religion, which is just a convenient excuse for assholery.
but assholes are far and few when people aren’t deluded by religion. are you people actually arguing in favor of a religious society?
We don’t actually know this, just because one southpark episode depicts it happening like that doesn’t mean it would. Religion has a lot of archaic beliefs that actively harm people. It would be a lot harder for someone to be motivated to hurt someone if they didn’t believe they had a reason to justify it.
👁️4️⃣👁️
I’d encourage LGBTQ folk to relocate to western and northern Europe. It ain’t perfect, but you’re very unlikely to get the shit kicked out of you.
These Syrian Islamists are also here. Like here in the Netherlands a couple of months ago two Syrians beat up an old Iraqi immigrant because he was wearing a cross. And this week a Syrian father honor killed his daughter with the help of his sons. This shit happens everywhere where these Syrians fled to in huge numbers.
Yeah, sure, European reactionaries are so well known for their inclusive position towards the LGBTQ community; it’s those damn immigrants protesting drag shows and criminalizing abortion.
Stop instrumentalizing the discrimination minorities face to legitimize discrimination of other minorities, you xenophobe.
have books become too heavy for men?
Pigs being pigs in klanada, what a shocker
It’s too bad that happened, and I dunno if I’m victim blaming or whatever… But the one girl followed the group and said that’s not ok. Yeah she called them out, but there’s consequences to stuff like that. Either way hope they catch those pricks
The point was that those men weren’t supposed to harass them in the first place.
Are you saying she provoked them somehow, and they didn’t even know she was gay? I am just trying to clarify the point here
According to the article it started with them insulting one of the girls due to appearance, then the girlfriend defended and followed the group. According to the group of guys the women got violent first but who knows who’s telling the truth.
Yes there is being right but also being stupid.
Here lies the body of William Jay, Who died maintaining his right of way— He was right, dead right, as he sped along, But he’s just as dead as if he were wrong.
A guy I worked with would pull shit like this on the road all the fucking time. I remember once my wife was dropping me off at work, she starts complaining that the guy in the right lane is deliberately not letting her merge, look over and sure enough it’s the guy I work with.
He is going to get someone killed one day
Remember incidents like these are a direct result from republican politics.
The thugs are being enabled by the politicians.
Edit: I thought Halifax is in the USA.
Nova Scotia is not a US state.
Let’s hope it stays that way. I feel like Trump would pull something.
There are, in fact, 7 states with cities called Halifax. And if others aren’t aware, that republican authoritarianism is spreading around the globe - enabled by their same corporate/elite backers and think tanks. I believe your point still stands.
Not only did this happen in Canada, these men who assaulted these women…are not Republicans, they’re a completely different kind of authoritarian and they’re already at the violence level.
To be honest they are the role model of republicans, they are everything republicans dream to become
no.
