Asking because not only did I suspect my (now former) boss to be like that, there was also a massive meltdown in a specific content creation space where an otherwise extremely kind CC was exposed as… being a bit special. So I thought I should try to get better at spotting ppl like that in order to not burn myself
Edit: Thanks everyone. I guess I didn’t word it correctly but my goal wasn’t to “diagnose” someone. I’m Autistic & am working in a field that allegedly attracts lots of hyper-competitive/toxic ppl, so I want to protect myself. That’s why. I already saw tons of useful comments so
Don’t know about diagnosing but a safe red flag for a relationship that is not good for you and has factors that often occur with narcissists is when you think about their feelings way more than you objectively should while neglecting your own. Especially if you are not in love or something like with your boss.
No. You’re not a behavioral health professional. It is unethical to diagnose people from afar with minimal context and no formal education or training.
I’m not sure OP ist trying to diagnose so much as just define their own boundaries. It’s healthy to know your boundaries and be able to quickly recognize and respond maturely to something that will cross them.
That doesn’t sound at all like what they’re doing. You’re saying what you would be doing most likely.
They are asking how to quickly identify a medical diagnosis that can’t be quickly identified, especially by lay people, so they can act on it. It can’t be done and it’s unethical. They are not a bad person for asking, but carrying it out would be wrong.
I mean, only OP can clarify what they actually meant. I was just sharing my interpretation, which I will say leans heavily on the final “in order to not burn myself” line.
Then why are you trying to clarify for them, especially in such a way that is so far from what they wrote? I am taking them at face value. There isn’t a whole lot to infer here. They are trying to diagnose their boss. It’s irresponsible to support this. This isn’t two buddies sitting at a bar speculating about someone they know.
I’m not a psychiatrist, so this is all observational for me, but my father is a narcissist so I can at least tell you what he’s like.
In conversation, or any interaction, if the topic veers into anything that my father can’t relate to or isn’t aware of from his own personal experience, he immediately reframes the topic so it’s about him. This consistently happens in the middle of a conversation, and it usually interrupts someone speaking. The interruption is always unrelated to what the person was actually saying, so after he interrupts you can always see the person he cut off deflate and shrink away from the conversation. Because it’s clear he wasn’t participating in a two-sided conversation, he was just waiting his turn to cut in and take over.
He manages to come across as caring, but that’s only because he knows exactly how to act so he appears that way. But his motivation is only to be praised for his apparent empathy, because if you probe his behavior even a little bit, it’s like a switch is flipped and he goes into a full on angry defensive mode.
For example, a close family member is dying, and he is the only one available to care for them. And he is taking care of them physically, don’t get me wrong, I appreciate that, but whenever another family-member asks for an update on their condition, his framing is always about what he has done and how he has learned what to do in a particular situation, it’s never about the condition of our dying family member.
He takes credit for every idea and new concept he comes across, even if the person who gave him the idea is in the room with him. It sometimes even happens in the same conversation.
Anyway, those are just my personal experiences living with an extremely difficult and selfish father who is incapable of thinking genuinely about other people. I learned a lot about myself and him by reading Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. Worth a read even if you’re not thinking about a parent.
Sounds like my mom.
I’d also add when something goes wrong it’s ALWAYS somebody else’s fault. Generally, if someone were to accidentally bump into something and break it, most would apologize, and at least offer to help fix or replace it, but my mom would get angry at whoever “put that there where it would get broken.”, or at the company for making such a shoddy product, or claim “you should thank me because that thing was ugly/ needed replaced.”
Also, she knows more about medicine than any doctor, more about cars than any mechanic, and if anyone implies otherwise, they just hate women and won’t listen to them.
Oh yeah, that last point rings true for my dad too. My family hired a health aid to assist with our relative who he’s helping care for in home hospice, and we fought with him for weeks to defer to the aid’s expertise. He believes, despite the fact that this is literally her career, that he knows better how to take care of someone on their deathbed. Despite not having gone through it before, or having any medical or healthcare experience. He would snap at the aid for showing him how to do something.
We ultimately had to have a heart-to-heart with the aid to apologize for his behavior and to teach her how to use his own narcissism against him so he would do things the right way.
Recently came across the terms “grandiose narcissism” and “vulnerable narcissism”. The way I understand it, a grandiose narcissist knows they are the best and gets angry if anyone dares to challenge this idea. A vulnerable narcissist knows that they have flaws but they work really hard to maintain a perfect facade.
Do you think that your father would be either one of those types?
I think he’d be a grandiose narcissist. He truly believes he’s the best and can’t be wrong. And when someone calmly and carefully explains why he is wrong about a particular thing, his mood flips 180 degrees and he blows up and gets super defensive. If we don’t give up trying to convince him, his mood gets even more sour and he essentially mopes like toddler. This can be for anything, even the most trivial bullshit that wouldn’t phase anybody else.
And he does all that while bragging to anyone that will listen that he’s open-minded and loves being proven wrong.
I’m not a psychiatrist
Then don’t enable OP
He just sounds autistic to me.
Some narcissistic traits are not limited to narcissists, but if tou avoid these two common ones it will cover the vast majority of people that fall into the category of what you are trying to avoid.
Are they unable to accept criticism or see things from other people’s viewpoints and overreact to those types of things?
Are they fine with harming other people if it benefits them personally?
If someone exhibits either of these then they will be extremely difficult to work with or get along with, and impossible to deal with if they exhibit both.
My ex called me a narcissist (deflection), to which friends and my therapist tried to beat out of me, and as the relationship progressed both of your points become painfully obvious. Everything became about them, and if there wasn’t an immediate benefit for them, they didn’t give a fuck. They’d gladly let me pay to see them (ldr), let me move closer to them and burden me financially (I’m disabled), pay for meals, gifts, etc whenever we were together. Then they’d push away ideas I had to try new things in the relationship, but every idea he had was seemingly great, and everyone they slept with (open relationship) was reportedly wonderful and kinky - um, hello, right in front of you. It was like if I wasn’t aggressively dominating the fuck out of the entire relationship all the time, he’d take over and be a backseat driver who only gave a fuck about himself and degrade me for it (not in the fun way). No fucks given about what makes me happy, what I’m worried about, what I want in life and with him, or that it’s screaming him in the face that I shower him with affection while I screw myself financially to make him happy. It became that nothing was good enough, that giving everything wasn’t a high enough bar. Then I made the mistake of putting my foot down, for the first meaningful time in the relationship, and said no over something quite trivial in the grand scheme of things, but that bothered me deeply (piercing/body mod plans), and he went off the rails and used that as a springboard to blame me for literally anything and everything, even shit he made up on the spot and for months later, and dump me like a useless sack of shit. We were engaged and had been together for 6 years. The cracks started to form after year 2, but I wouldn’t notice until year 4. Fun.
So yeah, I’d even simplify your points further, and just say ‘does everything revolve around them?’ and if so, fucking run. It will hurt less in the long run. :(
I’m not a fan of labels because I can never keep up with the constant changing of meaning or the new labels that keep appearing.
Instead I focus on peoples actions to figure out how I am to handle them. The most common behaviour I see in people who act more in their own self interest is manipulation. They want to control as much as possible. That includes the situation and the people around them.
The simplest thing to do is observe. Watch what they do. Watch how they interact with people around them. I often ask myself a bunch of questions about that behaviour. Do the words they say match what they do? Where is the attention coming from and where is it going? What tools do they use to bring attention to themselves? Is there a power imbalance between them and someone else? What tools do they use to control that power imbalance? Who is gaining something and who is losing something in those interactions? Why do they care so much about something that seems insignificant?
That’s not a complete list or anything. People are creative in good and bad ways so it’s more of a developed skill which takes time to grow. You may find other observations or questions to help you filter out manipulative people.
As a quiet person who has spent more time observing than talking, I’ve always been a target for manipulators. They seem to think my quietness is submission. I’ve dealt with far too many manipulators so much of what I said comes from those experiences.
I often deal with manipulative people by either acting dumb or figuring out the tools they are using or willing to use on me and deny them the chance to use those tools on me any further.
I’ve been wary of labels because it seems like shorthand for actually getting to know a person.
That skill can be handy if you’re frequently meeting a lot of people, sure, but a person who is quick to attach a label to somebody that they didn’t attach to themselves first has no interest in getting to know that person, and their label should not automatically be accepted as correct.
I’ve known quite a few people who were labeled as weird by the unofficial group leader who turned out to just have interests that the group leader wasn’t interested in and was otherwise a perfectly normal person.
A lot of people missed out on their friendship because of that label.
My number 1 red flag is they have relationships that don’t last. I remember I had a girlfriend in college who didn’t have any girl friends, just guy friends and even they weren’t around long. I found out it was because she was an attention seeking narcissistic cuckoo.
Also, my Uncle is a chronic liar. He is VERY entertaining, but a liar none-the-less. He will move from group to group until somone finds out he’s full of shit. From a social club, to adult sports, a biker gang, camping club, and the list goes on and on.
My number 2 red flag is that they can’t be corrected or are never wrong. They are willing to argue ludicrous points just to feel right and relevant. They also pick the dumbest things to argue over when all they have to do is answer something like, “That’s crazy.” Normal people eventually admit fault and learn. Narcissists will never learn.
They also pick the dumbest things to argue over when all they have to do is answer something like, “That’s crazy.”
I do that, but it’s because I’m perverse and contrary.
My colleague is similar and it’s stupid because you can look anything up on the internet. Also, I don’t like him any more or less for being right or wrong, but I do like him less for arguing about everything all the time.
they can’t be corrected or are never wrong
This is #1 for me. Its easy to spot, and they won’t be able to hide it because it would drive them nuts to admit fault.
You’re talking about that VTuber ain’t ya?
Yup I was referring to Sinder
I only really watch clips so I wasn’t that personally invested in the drama itself (other than finding it intriguing). But it did hit a bit too close to home since my boss was almost exactly like that so…
you should watch this video about how narcissist hunting is the newest form of conspiracy theory/witch hunt against disabled people
Obligatory “not a *psychiatrist”, but based on my own past experiences with troubled folks that taught me a lot about myself and what I’m not willing to tolerate any longer:
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Tendency to reroute conversations to be only about them. The expectation is that you will be the emotional dumping ground for them, but they don’t have a vested interest listening to anything you say that isn’t of benefit to them.
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Along the same vein, they typically aren’t safe to vent to about anyone or anything. They might be comfortable speaking ill of people/things to you if they have perceived you as passive enough, but if you do the same they will pocket that info for a later date and use it against you if they feel slighted or threatened.
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Love bombing as a social weapon/form of manipulation. They will act super nice and want to get to know you fast in an effort to disarm you and earn their trust. Do not allow yourself to fall into a “fast friends” situation!
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They will do anything to avoid accountability for awful behavior, including trying to blame you for things they chose to do on their own selfish volition. Additionally, if they have the means to do so, they will play the reverse victim card real fast to gain sympathy from others and make you seem like the problem if you catch them red-handed.
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They are insecure and can’t handle their energy being matched and tend to be stuck in “teenager” behavior as adults. In my case, they were abrasive and accustomed to back-handed compliments toward anyone they were “friends” with. That said, if it got dished back they would become downright livid and mean.
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Casual tendency to regurgitate others truths as their own as an act of self-aggrandization (I called it secondhand lying). For example, you might say to them “I went to ‘ABC’ restaurant and they had amazing cocktails” and then a few days later you’ll catch them saying the same sentence to someone else despite knowing they didn’t go to that restaurant. That was a weird one.
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Just tell him that he is not the most important person in the world.
Then watch…
He’s not going to take that from a lowly NPC like OP
No, there is not a way for a layman to spot mental health issues and reliably diagnose them. This is true across the board regardless of circumstances because mental health issues constantly overlap and require a lot of work to properly diagnose at a professional level.
I don’t think they mean clinical diagnosis, more of like an interpersonal diagnosis.
I believe they are just asking for how to identify red flags.
Then they shouldn’t use clinical terminology. Call it what it is: uninformed guessing made on too few assumptions and observations in a misguided attempt to make a negative generalization about someone.
I know exactly what they asked and the answer is still “no”.
If you aren’t a mental health expert you aren’t equipped to ever make mental health judgement.
There are instruction videos on yt about this specific question, and they aren’t that hard to follow.
Ah yes Youtube, the bastion of medical education.
Fact of the matter is I am right and I am not here to argue about it.
I am right and I am not here to argue about it.
Muuuuhahahahaha…
Go waste someone else’s time.
Have you heard about that new, young youtuber, Lorem? Lorem Ipsum.