• LughOPMA
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    3 months ago

    Any time I hear claims that involve hitherto unknown laws of Physics I’m 99.99% sure I’m dealing with BS - but then again, some day someone will probably genuinely pull off such a discovery.

    • bruhbeans@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that NASA has physicists that understand how and why this thing works, and the article title is just bullshit.

      • xor@infosec.pub
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        3 months ago

        they do, and tested it extensively… and determined it doesn’t provide any thrust and the earlier tests that showed a tiny bit were just sensors malfunctioning from the microwaves…
        i’m going go ahead and call this article:
        probably bullshit

        • corroded@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Are you sure? What you say is true of the EM drive, but this looks like it’s a completely different technology. As far as the article is written, it doesn’t sound like microwaves are used at all.

          What has me skeptical is that they say the device produces enough thrust to counteract its own mass, which would be revolutionary. Why are we not reading about this all over the news?

    • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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      3 months ago

      It’s very likely, but it’s almost certainly going to involve an extreme thing we can barely measure. The whole reason physics is stuck where it is is that all the things we have access to are described perfectly by the system we have, even if it’s not fully self-consistent.

      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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        3 months ago

        This wasn’t NASA, though. This was a sci-fi writer, writing about a putative claim by someone who got paid by NASA at some point in the past.

        Ditto for the couple ex-CIA guys that claim there’s alien dissections or whatever. Big organizations inevitably employ all sorts.

  • admiralteal@kbin.social
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    3 months ago

    They literally are claiming they found a new fundamental force.

    It’s bullshit. He’s a liar and “the debrief” should be goddamned ashamed of publishing this tripe.

  • BenFranklinsDick@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Did nobody else see this was written by a FUCKING SCIENCE FICTION AUTHOR?

    The flags are there, and they are red.

  • SUPAVILLAIN@lemmygrad.ml
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    3 months ago

    a NASA veteran claims their Propellantless Propulsion Drive, that physics says shouldn’t work, just produced enough thrust to overcome Earth’s gravity

    What’s that? No replication? Not even peer reviewed? Fuck are we reporting on it for, then? It’s giving “alien spheroids from deep space” that will later turn out to match terran iron to a 99.9999% level of accuracy energy; and that’s not a good look

    Dr. Charles Buhler, a NASA engineer and the co-founder of Exodus Propulsion Technologies

    That smells even worse. Company’s a year old and all I can reliably find on it is a company profile on “Corporation Wiki”; no website, no real information on them, but this company just apparently cracked physics. Lmao okay. This is a grift for a coming IPO, I’d bet my left leg on it.

    IF anyone else can replicate these findings, he might be onto something-- but with how many outright scams PhD’s have tried pushing in the last four years regarding exotic sciences, I don’t… Believe shit out of this sector without the actual rigors of the Method being applied to what people are flapping their jaws about.

      • SUPAVILLAIN@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 months ago

        Steve from Accounting is a prick who thinks it’s okay to microwave his fish in the break room come lunchtime, I’d need a double-check and a second opinion if Steve from Accounting told me the sky was blue.

    • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      The hilarious irony about this is that I actually made a theoretical framework for how such a drive could be possible and then was shocked as shit when I found out their solution was magical time travelling particles. Like even they knew it was complete and utter bullshit.

    • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      Best Lemmy World post: “I put this article through an AI generator and it made this image, here’s a description I made with ChatGPT” 🤓☝

      Worst Lemmy Grad post:

  • Th4tGuyII@kbin.social
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    3 months ago

    […] Another unusual result from their tests was that sometimes the tested devices did not require a constant input of electrical charge to maintain their thrust. Given that the device already appears to violate the known laws of physics by creating thrust without propellant, this result even stumped Dr. Buhler and his team.

    Hold up a minute, not only does this thing generate momentum out of essentially nowhere “a new fundamental force”, it is also able to generate thrust without a constant supply of energy?

    If I told you my car could run without petrol, you’d call me a liar, but apparently this didn’t ring alarm bells to them?

  • Hotspur@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    I get the skepticism in the comments here, but having finished the article, the team seems as perplexed as the rest of us as to why/what is happening here, and seems very interested in getting outside scientists and companies to try and figure it out. Basically they don’t seem to be the standard vaporware sellers playbook, but of course, who knows, most things like this are total bullshit.

    My fake conspiracy joke explanation: all those physics breaking lozenge ufos that have been making the rounds the last couple years are some lizard man tech we’ve had all along, and this is a half assed attempt to introduce the tech publicly without having to explain they had it already. OR similar vein, but the super-dimensional tic-tac operators (either aliens or multi-dimensional humans from the future like in interstellar) are trying to share this miracle tech with us and this is the avenue they chose.

    • DeLacue@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I’m not merely sceptical I know this is bunk. Not because they’re claiming they accidentally stumbled onto something akin to cold fusion, or the incredible claim that they’ve found a new fundamental force that everyone else completely missed. No I know it’s bunk because they’re already talking to the press about and releasing statements with their claims before the paper is ready.

      Every credible organisation if they stumbled on something like this would lock things down. They wouldn’t make any statements until they have double, triple or quadruple-checked everything. Making a massive claim that can make world news but quickly gets debunked is poison to a group’s credibility. So every group that cares about their credibility would only officially confirm anything once every single i is dotted and every t is crossed.

      The fact that they’re already talking to the press means they don’t have the real evidence to prove their extraordinary claims and they know it. This is a scam and the whole “We don’t know what causes it” is simply a tactic to make it harder to debunk while they fish for gullible investors to sink money into their scheme.

      • Hotspur@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        Yeah that’s a good point. Also it’s the debrief, not like the New York Times, so that doesn’t exactly instill confidence.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I wouldn’t call it bullshit. This is how science operates. We wouldn’t have breakthroughs if we just never followed up on weird shit happening in labs. And it’s just as important to shut down bad avenues as it is to find good ones. In fact most of the time this ends up with another team figuring out the first team left the microwave on or something. As long as the first team is open and honest it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

  • Erasmus@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Me reading this article and hearing the opening them to Star Trek in the background the whole time…

  • bradorsomething@ttrpg.network
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    3 months ago

    I’ve heard of this years ago, and I teach basic electrical theory. I’m not an expert in electrical static discharge, and I can’t validate his work, but I can give my “dummy english” explanation of what I think he’s doing.

    I’m hoping everyone here has rubbed a balloon and felt their hair stand up. Static charge can build up on an object, positive or negative, and they will repel like charges, which you’ve also probably done with a balloon. My understanding is they build massive repelling charges on the same fixed object, and off-balance them so electrostatically, compared to the local frame of reference, the object is impelled in one direction. Electrostatics at small scale can obviously defy gravity (ever pick a charged piece of styrofoam off your shirt?), but scaling and exceeding the frame of reference have always been the failing points. You can build huge potential to move with charge, but you need something to move against, in general. The charged styrofoam needs you to move your shirt to move in the previous example.

  • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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    3 months ago

    Why do they talk about isolating it from the air, but not from conductive material around it?

    Surely air is the easier of the two to do. If you’re concerned that it’s working by pushing on the air around it, just put the thing in a box. Measure the net force on the box; if it’s pushing on the air then that force will be 0.

    My automatic assumption from the way they describe the machine is that if it’s not breaking the laws of physics, it’s probably pushing on conductive material nearby with an electrostatic force. You can mitigate that with a similar approach by surrounding it with a faraday cage I guess, but that part at least seems somewhat more tricky.

    Disclaimer I know absolutely nothing about the issues involved but that’s my immediate take on it and it seems weird to me that they don’t mention anything about isolating it from conductive material.

    • ShadowRam@fedia.io
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      3 months ago

      it’s probably pushing on conductive material nearby with an electrostatic force.

      You think a Doctorate expert in electrostatics would miss that?

      Dr. Buhler’s background confirms that he is indeed one of NASA’s top experts in electrostatics. In addition to overseeing the management of electrostatic discharge (ESD) and ESD safety for the Space Shuttle, the ISS, and Hubble, Dr. Buhler also established NASA’s Electrostatics and Surface Physics Laboratory at Kennedy Space Center.

      • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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        3 months ago

        I do not, no. I am sure he thought of that in addition to 10 other factors I didn’t think of. I’m just saying it seems weird for it not to be mentioned in the article.

      • darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org
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        3 months ago

        He wouldn’t be the first legitimate scientist to go off the rails into kooky land. He is of the generation that ate lead paint chips for breakfast.

      • A_A@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Well, kind of yes (or yeah…).
        But everything about this is now an oversimplification since science can’t describe it properly now.
        This image is a simplified schematic describing one of their devices made with the intent of creating an asymmetric electric field which according to the inventors would be somehow related to the trust which they claim they have measured.
        There are maybe around 20 of these images included in the patent for which I gave the link and I decided to put one of those images in my comment so users could have an intuitive idea of what their devices could look like … which is completely different from the bogus image in the post article.

      • A_A@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Yes … and this is also part of the reason why I chose this image (out of maybe 20 other from the patent) to be included in my above comment 👍 ΣFx≠0

  • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    They did this on Mythbusters in small scale years ago and the science of it is fascinating.

    I don’t think it would do much to break orbit, but once IN space it could be interesting.

    https://youtu.be/UCiU96rJJoo

    This is what they were testing:

    https://youtu.be/006d36WWyaQ

    You take a lightweight balsawood frame, wrap it in tinfoil and lightweight wire, then pump high voltages through it.

    https://hackaday.com/2016/07/13/expanding-horizons-with-the-ion-propelled-lifter/

    • macarthur_park@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Note that what the mythbusters looked at was a form of ion propulsion. The high voltage on the sharp boundary of the aluminum foil repels air molecules. If you put one of those in a vacuum (or space) it wouldn’t have any thrust.

      • threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works
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        3 months ago

        If you put one of those in a vacuum (or space) it wouldn’t have any thrust.

        IIRC, the MythBusters did exactly that later in the episode. Unsurprisdngly, the devices produced no thrust in a vacuum chamber.

    • ferret@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      That isn’t propellant-less. The propellant is air, and in space where there is no atmosphere they typically use xeon gas

  • set_secret@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    I gave the article to gpt 4 and it said nothing and simply generated this image…

    I asked if it was bullshit too and it said. 'Given the current understanding of physics, it’s highly unlikely. Extraordinary claims like this require extraordinary evidence, and until such evidence is thoroughly vetted and confirmed by the wider scientific community, skepticism remains warranted.