• LughOPMA
    link
    English
    18628 days ago

    Good news for pigs. I’ll be delighted to see factory farming disappear and be replaced by tech like this.

    • @Chip_Rat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      -1727 days ago

      Except for the pigs raised for stem cells? Which I think somehow is an even more distopian concept… Maybe just a different flavour.

      Note: I am actually in the comments looking for the answer to my question “how many stem cells?”. Like per lb or whatever… What’s the ratio?

      • @smeenz@lemmy.nz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        2727 days ago

        The article answers your question

        It involves nothing more than pulling a single cell once from a pig without causing harm.

        • @Chip_Rat@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          1227 days ago

          Thank you. I read the article, I swear, before posting. (Literally stopped what I was typing after I read my own statement “looking in the comments”) Not sure how I missed that.

      • Cethin
        link
        fedilink
        English
        927 days ago

        The whole “stem cells from a fetus” thing certain groups try to spread is false. Technically stems cells can come from a fetus, but they generally don’t. We even have methods to turn regular cells into stem cells I’m pretty sure. This doesn’t do anything more than taking cell(s) from a pig one time and they can be grown on their own potentially forever. No other pig needs to be involved.

        • @Daft_ish@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          -2
          edit-2
          27 days ago

          That’s straight ignorance. You don’t abandon a curated breed of livestock based on some short term innovation. Humanity’s dependence on these types animals is older than recorded history. You would doom us all if the technology fails and we can not go back to traditional methods.

          • @Gabu@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            1027 days ago

            Oh, poor little humans, imagine having to live by *checks notes* eating vegetables.

          • @fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            326 days ago

            Sorry chief, I’m unable to fathom the logic underlying this comment.

            Do you think that the day the first stem cell sausage hits the supermarket shelves pigs will be deleted from this reality?

            You’ll still be able to buy sausages made with real flesh in 50 years, just that between now and then alternatives will emerge that are tastier, healthier, and cheaper.

            Steam trains still exist but you don’t drive one to work every day because they’re shit.

      • Demosthememes
        link
        fedilink
        English
        29
        edit-2
        27 days ago

        We could let the pigs run the farm, then document what happens.

      • @viking@infosec.pub
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1427 days ago

        Eat the last generation and put a couple in zoos, like we did with all species once they are no longer useful…

      • @lucas@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        727 days ago

        This was definitely one of my concerns when I first went vegan, but thankfully, it’s really not a problem at all, due to basic supply and demand.

        Everyone in the world isn’t going to go vegan overnight. The demand for animal products will gradually decline over decades, and farmers won’t waste their time and money by raising more animals than they can sell, so the supply will decline in turn.

        • @MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          927 days ago

          Nah. We got people in helicopters shooting them by the hundreds and they are still out of control.

        • @Darukhnarn@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          427 days ago

          That’s the fastest way to kill of even more animals and species as a whole. Pigs are really good at adapting and eating.

      • bufalo1973
        link
        fedilink
        English
        227 days ago

        Animal reservoir? Instead of millions of pigs sent to the slaughter, thousands in free range zones where they can have their stem cells harvested without suffering. And “train” the rest to live on their original place.

        • Cethin
          link
          fedilink
          English
          427 days ago

          Yeah, not a good idea. There are wild hogs, but our farm pigs are not good for the wild. They go feral and become giant and dangerous and do a lot of damage, and they also breed like crazy. It’s actually a really big issue. These animals are meant for the farm and nothing more.

  • Nomecks
    link
    fedilink
    English
    93
    edit-2
    28 days ago

    Technically kosher because there’s no cloven hooves?

    • @casmael@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      4228 days ago

      As a technical Jew I can say that yes, this is technically kosher ^disclaimer: I have no knowledge at all of Jewish custom or scripture^

    • gregorum
      link
      fedilink
      English
      36
      edit-2
      28 days ago

      They’re not technically kosher. Nor halal.

      NOT YET

      It hasn’t officially been ruled upon by either kosher or halal certification boards yet (although many Jewish and Islamic leaders have expressed differing opinions on the matter), but most lab meat growers very much hope it will be ruled as what is known as “parvere” — or not meat. That is to say, since it didn’t actually come from an animal, it’s not technically meat, it has no blood, wasn’t slaughtered, etc., and, as such is considered more in line with a vegetable or other foodstuff that isn’t milk or meat.

      If lab meat is considered in this way, it could clear the way for Kosher and Halal certification as well as for Hindus who do not eat beef, and many others with objections to eating meat for various reasons.

        • gregorum
          link
          fedilink
          English
          13
          edit-2
          27 days ago

          We live in a brave New World, adjudicated by a very old and blind one

      • @Kalysta@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        827 days ago

        Imagine if the next big Abrahamic schism comes over wether or not lab grown meat is halal/kosher or not.

        • gregorum
          link
          fedilink
          English
          727 days ago

          While the Christians cry over whether it’s “woke”.

          • capital
            link
            fedilink
            English
            226 days ago

            The mere mention of stem cells will rustle all the Christian Jimmies.

    • @DucktorZee@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      2928 days ago

      I culture cells for a living. Not that these are the only ways, but the most common and effective ways to grow cells in the lab is to add either FBS (fetal bovine serum) or BSA (bovine serum albumin) to the culture media. Currently we don’t mass produce BSA in an animal free manner and FBS is by nature an animal product. Granted, that the products of one animal may in fact allow manufacturers produce more than enough ‘animal-free meat’ to overcome this but I haven’t seen any numbers. I’m interested in hearing more about these techniques going forward and in determining if animal-free products can really be produced animal free.

    • kora
      link
      fedilink
      English
      328 days ago

      Yes, very Kosher.

      source: porky the pig

  • @ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    8228 days ago

    Sausage seems like the perfect entry point for this technology. People don’t really care what goes in them as long as it tastes good. It’s also a lot more forgiving from a texture perspective. It would even be feasible to expand to more exotic sausages like pheasant or alligator.

    • kora
      link
      fedilink
      English
      2328 days ago

      I know i’m in a significant minority, but I care a great deal what goes in processed pork products (or rather, my gut cares). I’ve yet to pin down which “preservative” commonly used in pork/pork-like products I’m allergic to, but I have a serious problem with even Kosher Hot dogs.

      Basically, if its not fresh homemade bratwurst or sausage, I just can’t eat it.

      I’m sure that, if these methods continue to become more viable than their livestock counterparts, then the need to use at least some preservatives will decrease… hopefully.

      • southsamurai
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1428 days ago

        Man, that’s gotta suck. Not knowing exactly what’s causing the problem can mean it being a problem unexpectedly with other things.

        • kora
          link
          fedilink
          English
          427 days ago

          Its not awesome, but for theost part, that specific reaction is limited to just that. I’m pretty adventurous when it comes to food, so i’m sure that whatever chemical causes it is limited in use outside of that market.

          • bufalo1973
            link
            fedilink
            English
            127 days ago

            Maybe is not one specific product but the mix in those sausages.

      • @SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        928 days ago

        One problem I’ve noticed with currently available meat alternatives is that they are even more processed than real meat.

        • kora
          link
          fedilink
          English
          327 days ago

          Yes. I’m not sure how much of the non-meat chemicals are for the preservation / shelf life as opposed to the ones necessary to the creation(?) process.

          I suspect that at first the meat will still require the more aggressive preservation methods because the distance in both time and geography from the lab will be similar to that of the slaughter locations.

          But without needing to work around breeding seasons and just general herd growth variations throughout the year, the creation of the meat could be much closer to the demand. Storage costs for temperature sensitive products that are also time sensitive has got to be a huge industry cost, so there is more economic reasons than just “use less chemicals” for it to start to trend that way. (Also, I’m sure the chemicals used are absurdly cheap and hardly a factor)

      • @Rodeo@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        6
        edit-2
        27 days ago

        Some ideas you’ve probably already considered:

        • Nitrates and nitrites: in pretty much every commercial sausage. May be listed in the ingredients as curing salt or Prague powder.

        • Onion or garlic powder

        • Breadcrumbs

        • Emulsifiers: in any kind of hotdog or Weiner where it’s all blended and looks smooth, as opposed to a sausage where you can actually see little pieces of fat and meat. Listed in the ingredients as some kind of gum or some kind of glyceride.

        • kora
          link
          fedilink
          English
          227 days ago

          Those first three I don’t think are exclusive to pork products, and I’m sure its not Onion/Garlic powders or breadcrumbs. I use them frequently when cooking without getting sick.

          But emulsifiers… would sausage/bratwurst of a lesser quality also have them? And are they exlclusive to tubular pork? Because they sound they may be the same thing that’s in most sugar-free gums, and glyceride by itself is everywhere, unless it’s a specific kind.

          I appreciate the help, but like I said I have narrowed it down to something that’s pretty exclusively used to preserve pork for really any duration of shelf life of a grocery store. I don’t get sick when I eat fresh pork of any kind, well I guess so long as it’s cooked, and I don’t get sick when I eat other animal products with preservatives in it, or at least not consistently at all.

          I’m good with just leading this pseudo-jewish life for the time being. Honestly unless it’s like quality fresh brought worse at Oktoberfest, then I don’t really feel like I’m missing out anyways.

          • @Rodeo@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            427 days ago

            I have narrowed it down to something that’s pretty exclusively used to preserve pork

            I don’t know of any preservatives that are exclusively used for pork. I’m a butcher so I have pretty good knowledge of that stuff. I didn’t really expect it would help you but I thought I’d take a shot in the dark.

            I don’t really feel like I’m missing out anyways.

            Grocery store sausages, definitely not.

    • @Zerthax@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      727 days ago

      It’s also a lot more forgiving from a texture perspective.

      This is also why I see milk and eggs being easier to develop. Non-animal dairy actually already exists (see: Perfect Day Foods), though I’ve only seen it in a few products.

    • @Not_mikey@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      528 days ago

      You have to compete with plant based sausages though which, unless some big breakthrough happens, will be much cheaper. They’ll also probably taste pretty similar cause this is only generating cells, they’ll have to add in a bunch of other artificial stuff like heme to make it taste like a sausage at which point I’m not sure if people could taste the difference between animal cells and plant cells as the base.

      • Skua
        link
        fedilink
        1828 days ago

        As someone who really enjoys meat but tries to eat vegetarian (and does so 99% of the time), I can’t say that I’ve ever been impressed by the taste of a non-meat sausage. Every single one I’ve had has left me wishing I’d just had falafel instead. Fortunately falafel is delicious and cheap

        Notably, though, vegetarian haggis - which is essentially just a large sausage - is usually pretty damn good. I have no idea why it seems to end up differently. Maybe because haggis depends less on the meat flavour in the first place?

        • @ThisIsNotHim@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          127 days ago

          I had a vegetarian sausage that had a close-ish flavor recently. It might have been Beyond? The texture was surprisingly awful though. Far from inedible, but I’d expect all parts of the texture to be closer, especially the casing.