I wonder what causes people who once thought they’d spend their life together to not want to do that anymore.
Has your partner change? Or did they not change when you expected them to? Have you changed?
Have you not noticed each others’ flaws when love was young and the pink glasses still worked and only discovered them later?
And what can your experience teach us about our own relationships?
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I’m not quite there yet because of logistical reasons, but I feel like I spent over 25 years getting a PhD in narcissistic personality disorder. If you are previously vulnerable prior to your relationship to people like this, your partner will take you for all they can get and make everything out to be your fault, no matter what heinous things they do. When they inevitably discard you, the light will go on about exactly how horrific they were all along. I do not blame him for everything that went wrong, but he sure orchestrated most of it, and magnified and distorted my every flaw to the umpteenth degree until I felt like I ruined everything all of the time. I absolutely did not, he’s just bat shit crazy.
She flipped on a switch one day and was just a completely different person than the one I fell in love with. Caught her attempting to cheat on me and when I confronted her about it she said she never actually gave a shit about me. She was abusive both verbally and physically. I endured her bullshit for 5 years because I simply couldn’t afford to get divorced and she refused to leave. I am still technically married afaik unless she filed for divorce after I moved out (California only needs one party to file). I cared more about getting away from her than about government bureaucracy.
The whole thing made me stop believing in love, and I trust people a helluva lot less than I did before.
It’s hard to say exactly, since the mess was even more complex than the relationship. On the surface from my perspective, she was constantly yelling at me so I sort of withdrew to protect myself. Eventually she either recognized what she turned into or decided I was too emotionally withdrawn.
But the next layer is why we each acted like that and it becomes a mess. Looking back on it now, it’s strange to look at our behavior and wonder how it got like that
There were clearly communications issues, and unmet needs. There were some mental health issues and some serious stress from a major physical health issue. There were self-esteem issues and empathy issues. There are always time and stress issues but what happens when you realize that work is far more relaxing than the stress of a relationship that’s not working?
We were both terrible people. We were 19 when we got married and enjoyed playing house for a while. We instigated each other at every opportunity. She cheated, we decided to make it work. Then we found out she was pregnant. I told her if she has it and it’s not mine then I wasn’t interested in taking care of her and the kid. She chose to have it (I was mad at the time, but in hindsight and with a lot of therapy behind me I realize that’s not really why I was mad, but I still made the right decision) so I made good on that promise.
She would hit me almost daily. I was severely emotionally abusive. I’ve grown since then and so has she. We’re not friends exactly, but we do periodically email each other to say hello or laugh about the actual good times if something reminds one of us of the other. Because there were plenty of good times.
We were 19 and in love with the idea of being in love. We both came from broken families and fucked up situations. And I think if we met today instead of back then we would be really good friends.
We were both in the military and got married at 20 and 19 years old. She got sent to Korea for a year and since I was due to separate I didn’t go with her. She came home to visit after 6 months and something just felt off. The day after she left I was on my computer and noticed some files in the recycle bin. I restored them and found videos of a guy jerking off and talking dirty specifically to her.
So, then I started digging. I got into her email and found all the correspondence with a guy she met in Korea. The crazy thing was the things she was telling him were completely BS. She had basically made up an entirely different life, but with all the same people. I was apparently her asshole brother-in-law. And she came to Texas to buy a house with the “inheritance money” she got from her uncle. Needless to say she had no such uncle or money.
This then got me thinking about stuff she’d told me throughout the years and when I tried to put things together the more they didn’t add up.
So, ultimately I decided to leave her because of the lying. The cheating was bad don’t get me wrong, but the fact that she made up these entire different lives was just too much to come back from.
He (now she) came out as trans. I am bi myself, but I had been attracted to him for his male qualities, and I did not find her attractive as a woman. That, and she deserved to have the life experiences of dating/living as a woman that our marriage could not provide. There were signs well before the divorce, and we did try marriage counseling before we called it quits. We were married 7 years and thankfully had no kids. The divorce was amicable and we are still friends, still hang out and text regularly.
I already had trust issues, but I definitely trust people even less now. I had many people say things like “Oh, but isn’t it nice that she trusted you enough to come out to you?” like that’s some sort of consolation prize for my marriage ending. There is not much support outside of immediate family for the ex-spouses of trans people because so many assume we are all anti-trans because of the divorce, when that’s so far from the truth. If you love someone, you set them free, and that’s what we did for each other by divorcing.
There’s a very fucked up community that call themselves “trans widows”, which is full of angry ex-spouses hating on all things trans. I get their anger, but at the end of the day, it’s the individual person and their particular actions and not the trans community that they should be angry at. The situation is difficult, and I know my ex carries guilt about it, and I could not relate to the “trans widow” community at all.
What can my experience teach you about your own relationships? I dunno, man, probably nothing good. That my paranoia and assumptions were ultimately justified leading up to her coming out? That you can’t trust anyone? That everyone has something to hide? That giving yourself to someone fully isn’t worth the risk? I dunno.
The trans widows things is extreme, but it would really be nice if the spouses of trans people had space to acknowledge that this is not what they signed up for, and while trans people should always be supported, their spouses DO have the right to say no, I don’t feel the same way about you without being made to feel badly for not just going along with it all. I would be supportive if it happened to me, but I would not be attracted to them any longer.
My wife started fucking a coworker she supervised, another woman, so she had me arrested, lied to the police and child services, then send my terminally ill mother to the hospital to die so she could move the lover into my house, emptied my bank account, maxed out my credit card, stole my work computers, posesiones, most belongings, and truck, Then blocked me from seeing my child, one I raised as a stay at home dad while she worked/fucked around. I am $18k in debt, with a bullshit arrest record and sleeping in my car.
Do I win?
That’s really bad but now I’m curious how she spins it so you’re the villain.
One day she got drunk coming home and decided she was going to change the baby. I was worry she was going to drop her again from the changing table so I pushed her hands away from her and she freaked out, grabbed the naked baby and shut herself in the bathroom. I called the police and her friends to get her out. A friend came over and the three of them stayed in the bedroom for 4 hours until the police arrived and they found her with mysterious scratches on her back so I got arrested. The charges were then dismissed as they were bullshit but the arrest record still shows up in background checks.
My ex wife made a claim that I hit her. She thought it would help her win the divorce.
Officially I have to check the box on forms saying yes I have in fact EVER been charged with domestic violence.
I’m the only person involved with a memory of the event she made up, because I have to maintain records of it and charges being dropped and everything. For work.
Investigators ask me, I have to say yes. I describe the situation and what happened and they give me the side eye “yeah sure ok, wife beater” and then my ex-wife doesn’t even remember the situation.
The good news is I have sole custody of our child. A judge saw the real of it when it mattered.
My wife came to realize she needed to date women. That, and she had very bad anxiety that she began to refuse to treat. She had multiple screaming and crying breakdowns over simple social situations with my family. She couldn’t leave the house for months. I was working two jobs, taking care of our animals, and doing all the housework. She would lay on the couch and doomscroll all day.
I spent 40 hours on the phone with Kaiser Permanente trying to get her a therapist. When we finally did get her a therapist, the therapist told her that she was autistic, that the anxiety she experienced was just who she was, and that other people should just accept it.
We were going to couples counseling, too, and I said in one session that her anxiety was something she needed to work on with the goal of ultimately fixing it, because it was maladaptive and making both our lives really hard. The therapist cautiously agreed with me. Afterwards, she demanded to fire the therapist and moved out of the house. She stayed with my aunt and uncle for a month. I think she would have continued to drag it out, for a year or more, but I had no faith in the relationship anymore. When she sent me an email reiterating the same unactionable, generic criticisms she had always raised in couples counseling, I told her we should just get divorced.
The actual divorce was amicable. We had no kids and few possessions. I bought her out of most of it and we split the rest. No lawyer needed. She moved into a house with a group of lesbians and started over.
I struggled with feelings of failure and inadequacy for a few years after that: why couldn’t I help her? Why couldn’t I make her happy? It’s taken a decent amount of therapy, but I have come to understand that sometimes things end without a conclusive reason, and we don’t have full control over the outcome of our lives. I could have done everything right, and it still would have ended.
There were many good years prior to things unraveling. A blooming flower is no less pretty because it will wilt.
She sounds like she has no idea who she is and you were part of finding that out.
I highly recommend watching the comedy special by Daniel Sloss called Jigsaw. It explains quite nicely why we get into relationships that don’t make us happy…
First one, we were sexually incompatible (both tops) which only got worse over time. We opened the relationship which doomed it.
Second one, in progress: we’re both addicts, I got sober, he’s still struggling, but I think he won’t get clean until I am actually good and gone. Enablement is sometimes not something you can avoid doing once the systems are built… resentments the same.
Going to assume that there was no “versaTop” in the equation.
Correct. I have had this problem again and again - I like top energy but I want to, you know, top them.
She came from a pretty messed up family. Not as bad as some but there was some pretty gross stuff going on. We dated for a long time, maybe 7 or 8 years. We got married, she was safe. And she started to grow and seek therapy. She grew into herself and it turned out we didn’t love each other anymore.
Do you two stay in touch? It sounds like it may have been for the best, if you two grew apart. I hope that doesn’t sound callous to say. I hope you’re both in a great place now.
Yeah. We had a kid so we were more co-parenting than anything. We stayed friendly. Well, after a while. I was pretty hurt but eventually it all passed. And now I’m way better off. Im married again and this time I can tell it’s for keeps. We have our ups and downs but we both want it to last so we each work hard at it. Also, after all the child support, and kid coming of age after some pretty rough teen years, there was some heavy feelings and drama. My wife and I made an agreement that we’d never divorce; there could be a gun and a shovel either way, but no divorce.
I could write an entire book on the reasons. The main factor was she cheated on me, wanted to make it work, I believed her, she hid the affair for 3 years (not very well) I discovered it again.
Men can be abused too. Yeah, I’m physically much bigger, but there is absolutely no way to defend yourself without looking like the bad guy, which she was well aware of.
She was also terrible in bed. And unfortunately about as sharp as a bowling ball and a few fries short of a happy meal.
Advice: Don’t marry someone just because they are hot.
Now I want to hear more about this intellectual monolith
Let’s start with the fact that we met at 14. This is important because my attraction to her was because she was (and still is) incredibly hot. 100lbs, hourglass, eyes that made me melt.
Well, all four years of highschool I was tutoring her through her remedial classes. She just barely graduated. As always though, thinking with your dick gets you in trouble.
I helped her start work on a two year degree she had a pell grant and scholarship for - that she couldn’t finish. Which of course she blamed on me because I was “too involved in my own education.”
She questioned the necessity of vaccines for a long time. Thankfully I got her opinion changed before we had a kid.
I remember when we first started dating she told me I “didnt have to be so smarty all the time.” I asked her what she meant and she said “well, have you tried like not thinking or learning everything you want to know?”
I felt bad for her. She couldn’t stand most jobs. I had this feeling I needed to be with her because she really had a dismal future. So I married her. I mean, come on, she’s hot. Maybe she can cook (she couldn’t cook well), or doesn’t mind chores, and she can be a little supportive. Plus, I would make enough that she wouldn’t need to work. And she really wanted to be a stay at home mom. Worked for me.
She couldn’t do the stay at home mom. She hated that “I got to work a job I liked” and she “had to be responsible.”
Fast forward a bit. She gets a job. She messes around with her boss, meets a customer has a “one time thing” with him. I’m crushed beyond belief. COVID comes around. I feel terrible about the potential for divorcing her. We try to work it out, im suspicious about the amount of time she spends with other men, she convinces me I’m too controlling. I discover her sexting nudes n stuff 3 years after the affair and she admits to it being the same guy (who I never found out who it was). She finally gets a job when I decide to divorce, but it comes with no benefits. Because she doesn’t want to work full or part time.
There’s more, but honestly I’m kind of done for now lol.
Makes SOOOO much more sense being you met her @ 14. We all could have fallen into that trap.
Ooofff…no matter how hot they are, someone is tired of putting up with their shit. (They is genderless, men are nuts too)
She unfortunately was not smart enough to understand consequences of fuck around finding out.
I as a fellow old fuck absolutely understand the self-imposed obligation…but just remember, you can’t always be Captain Save-a-ho. I am really hoping I’ve finally figured that out myself.
this, uh… cerebral menhir ?
She didn’t change; she finally revealed herself. In short, her attachment type is anxious-avoidant. That shit burns down everything around it. She was jealous AND cheating, which was just rich given that we were ENM/poly. I was so busy with life, work, and my sailboat that I only had romantic bandwidth for her.
I am forever changed. I went on an intensive therapeutic and introspective journey. Anxious-avoidant people can be immensely attractive anxious attachment types like me. I identified that in myself, addressed my own life traumas, and developed my personal boundaries. These days, I’m less poly, more monogamish. I approached dating with explicitly defined intentions and must-haves, rather than just random chance. I found the partner of my dreams, and we’re about to celebrate eight years together.
Early on, there were mutual warning signs, but we both thought we had the tools to face any challenges. As I mentioned, I had poor boundaries, which now would put an immediate end to any such bullshit.
What can I offer now?
- Learn Attachment Theory and know yourself
- Read John Gottman books before and all during your relationships
- Get professional therapeutic help; CBT, DBT, EFT… you might already have all the tools, but a good therapist will teach how to use them in integration
- Learn non-violent communication and/or take a workshop; this will provide massive return on investment in all aspects of your life
- Practice meditation and mindfulness; also pays dividends everywhere
Adding my voice to the chorus of thanks.
It takes a lot of courage to do the work. And effort. It’s not easy. Sharing resources helps to light a path for others who might be struggling in the dark.
Always cringe when you see someone that’s ENM cheat… Like bruh your partner is/was very cool with basically anything… And you still found a way to betray trust
Fully agreed. According to Gottman’s research, relationships can survive “infidelity” just fine. It’s the betrayal of trust that nukes relationships.
I can take a lot of shit, but I just don’t want to be lied to. And that’s why I prefer ENM/poly. People are gonna do people things, but letting my partner have that outlet, not feeling trapped in any way, is (in my experience) critical to keeping the flame alive.
Thank you for this. My wife left about a week ago. It blindsided me, but I’m hindsight I could have seen it. She’s been throwing herself into her work for the last 4 years. I felt the lack of love, but never had the tools to express my needs. Whenever we talked about it, we ended up fighting.
In hindsight, if someone is not feeling love in a marriage, why would they stay?
Like you, we also always thought we had the tools to work things out.
I’ve learned now that in our relationship she has been anxiously attached – it makes sense now why I could never have the “rational” kind of conversation I wanted with her.
Meanwhile I have been avoidant or possibly fearful-avoidant. What I thought of as “taking a break in an argument when things get heated” to go independently deal with my emotions must have been painful for her, and she would then chase me. End result: neither of us was able to regulate our emotions.
I’ve was open to ENM in our relationship, but she was against it, so we never persued it. So it stings even more seeing signs that she’s been cheating on me. Though I guess, even in ENM, why would you keep seeing a partner whom you feel no love for anymore?
In the last week I have been cramming attachment theory, Gottman, NVC, trying to have some idea of what the hell happened. Now I realize that if I don’t work on myself, I will bring all of my problems to any future relationship. I’m only at the very start of the journey, and every day is still painful – our relationship lasted 15 years, and that can’t be unwound quickly.
Thank you for this. My wife left about a week ago. It blindsided me, but I’m hindsight I could have seen it.
- Happy to help
- JFC, I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through, and I deeply empathize. I’m just some douchebag on the internet, but if you need a trained ear, please feel free to DM me.
- Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but a critical component is giving yourself grace and emotional space
Now I realize that if I don’t work on myself, I will bring all of my problems to any future relationship. I’m only at the very start of the journey, and every day is still painful – our relationship lasted 15 years, and that can’t be unwound quickly.
There is sense of closure and ability of growth in understanding the whys. Explicitly working to avoid carrying forward the injuries is a huge step. As you probably already read in Gottman: the best couple’s therapy is individual therapy. Empathy by way of anecdote: when I was reading Levine’s “Attached,” so many of the example conversations had me feeling like “Were y’all in the room when we were arguing?!”
I’m serious about the being a sounding board/ear. I hope you find inner peace sooner rather than later.
DM’d, thank you friend.
Understanding and addressing attachment styles is one of the most rewarding gifts to give yourself. It’s hard, messy, necessary work. I’m glad you invested in yourself and cultivated a healthier relationship.
There were no obvious reasons. An accumulation of life factors, like deaths in the family and job insecurity, led us both into a detached survival state, and her survival instinct is to run. There wasn’t much warning, and it happened when I was away for a family event.
This hit me so hard that I bet everything on giving her space to see what she was missing and find the way back. That turned into years of no contact. When we did eventually get in touch again, it was clear that I made a mistake. Life had not been easy for her. We had both likely been going through some kind of breakdown, not knowing the other was experiencing the same.
We’re now very close again in a lot of ways. I think it’s fair to say we’re more honest and trusting with each other than anyone else. We’ve both grown and matured significantly.
Unfortunately, distance from her family, and I sense some guilt over the whole thing has made it hard to fully reconcile. Now we’re on opposite sides of the world. She’s still struggling but determined to tick off some big life goals. It’s no secret that I would go back to our old life together in a heartbeat, but having so much already weighing on her makes it difficult to even think about relationships.
I’m not sure what the lesson is there. I guess it’s about remembering to look out for our own mental wellbeing, because without it we can’t fully look out for those we care about.
Hi. I’m you. It’s weird reading something so fucking … exact.
I’m sorry you went through that.
Thanks for confirming I’m not alone in this, and sorry you’ve experienced the same.
People tend to think marriage breakdowns happen for obvious reasons, like infidelity, laziness, just losing interest. It’s scary to think that you can tick all the right boxes but it can all fall apart anyway, because we as individuals can fall apart.
We need to do so much more for mental health support.
There’s no central reason, just a large imaginary orb colored with various reasons.
K couldn’t grow out of weekly spending to spend, or hoping for the impossible. She couldn’t have kids, and she held a lot of it against me for not trying hard enough when I more saw it as her not facing biological, medical reality with what her doctors were telling her, lose weight and maybe, you have a shot. No? (PCOS)
With our parents aging and no one around to take care of them, I was left with a hard decision, spin my tires on someone I had over a decade of attachment to who had grown to hate me or go take care of my disabled mom.
Coin flipped, and while I don’t regret my decision, I still miss her, but I have zero drive whatsoever to have a love life. There’s too much to do, a country in political turmoil and a busy family that I don’t want to damage with someone potentially untrustworthy.
We got together when she was 21 and I was 34 and we got on a like a house on fire. We split up 9 years later. Turns out you change loads between the ages of 21 and 30, not so much between 34 and 43…
Does that mean you’re too immature now? (Serious question)
I’ve been with my partner for 13 years and I’d say you still change a lot between 34 and 43, as you put it. The difference is that as we get older, we are usually more accepting of all the little things we used to find annoying.
I find that my core values are stronger, but everything else is less annoying overall. It makes accepting that your partner is changing a lot easier to deal with, so long as their changes aren’t in contradiction with your core values.
